The Extrauterine Citizens

Alabama’s supreme court ruled embryos are ‘extrauterine children’.The Guardian

Several other states have moved forward with measures that give embryos or fetuses some degree of legal rights and protections. These kinds of measures, which work to legally establish so-called “fetal personhood”, are often the work of anti-abortion activists who believe that life begins at conception.

Georgia, for instance, has enacted a law that allows people to claim fetuses as tax dependents.

Attribution: Alabama frozen embryo ruling by Dave Granlund, PoliticalCartoons.com

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76 thoughts on “The Extrauterine Citizens”

  1. a discussion back in 2022

    Some states want a fetus to be considered a person. Defining those rights is tough : NPR

    NPR’s A Martinez talks with Carliss Chatman, a law professor at Washington and Lee School of Law, about fetus personhood laws as a new frontier in legal battles over reproductive rights.
    A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
    The Supreme Court opinion erasing Roe v. Wade says the 14th Amendment right to privacy does not apply to abortion. Now every state can define its own laws on reproductive rights. Abortion bans that were invalidated by Roe have been restored, including laws that extend legal rights to a fetus in utero. Carliss Chatman is a law professor at Washington and Lee School of Law. And she says what’s known as fetal personhood could be the next frontier in the legal battle over reproductive rights in the U.S.
    CARLISS CHATMAN: The example I like to give is two things. One, the tax code and, an even more simpler one, the HOV lane. The reason that a pregnant woman can’t drive in an HOV lane is because there is one person in the car. But if we define a fetus as a person, suddenly there are two people in the car. So this pregnant mother can drive in an HOV lane if a state has a fetal personhood law. In the tax code, the reason that you can’t claim the baby on your taxes until it’s born is because it is not a person yet. But in a state that has a fetal personhood law, suddenly, you can put that fetus on your tax return. And so those are just, like, two simple kind of everyday things that everyone thinks about that immediately changes when you define a fetus as a person.
    […]
    CHATMAN: I think it’s a knot for states that have done that, in part because we should not have two different definitions of human beings state by state. The 14th Amendment defines that a person is a citizen when they are born. And it kind of is implied to me in the 14th Amendment that they’re referring to birth being when life begins. And so if we change that, you’re changing federal law and state law at the same time. 
    […]
    CHATMAN: Yes. And what I like to analogize it to is what the U.S. was like before the Civil War. Before the Civil War, states had different definitions of when a Black person was a person and when a Black person had citizenship rights, human rights – any rights. And it varied state by state. We fight a whole civil war about it. Fourteenth Amendment passes, says everyone born in the U.S. is a citizen, essentially says every human being is a person, a legal person with legal rights and due process rights. So in theory, we shouldn’t be able to allow states to define when personhood begins if we’ve got the 14th Amendment in place. But with the overturning of Roe, we know that the right of privacy based on Roe, that is the foundation of abortion rights, is gone. But what is happening with personhood with Roe gone? And I think you go back to the foundations of what the 14th Amendment is, and to be an originalist, why we even have the 14th Amendment in the first place.
    [continues]

  2. think of all the laws, rules and regulations pertaining to children that will need amending, enforcing and budgeting for.

    whatta mess

  5. Old Berman claps back hard at Jon Stewart in his “Worst persons in the world” segment.  

    And more on the actual treason of Gym Jordan, Grassley, Greene, and Comer.

    Actual treason.

  8. According to old Berman Ingraham once told him that she’d gone to a guy’s house after they’d broken up their relationship and took the garden hose, ran it into the house thru the mail slot in the front door, and turned on the spigot.
    And then cackled about it.

  9. Our emerging Christian nationalist theocracy. This line from the Alabama ruling is a stunner. Chief Justice Tom Parker, wrote in the opinion: “Even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”

  10. judge parker’s next move, after curtailing what happens with women’s eggs, will be clamping down on abandoning/abusing men’s sperm.

    needless to say he has a bible verse or two to back him up

  14. REPUBLICAN David Brooks in today’s NYT:

    “During Biden’s term the U.S. economy has created 10.8 million production and nonsupervisory jobs, including nearly 800,000 manufacturing jobs and 774,000 construction jobs. Wages are rising faster for people at the lower ends of the wage scale than for people at the higher ends. A study by the economist Robert Pollin and others estimates that 61 percent of the jobs created by the infrastructure law Biden championed won’t require a college degree; the same applies for 58 percent of the jobs created by the Inflation Reduction Act and 44 percent of those created by the CHIPS act.  A study from the Brookings Institution found that since 2021 the new laws have directed almost $82 billion in strategic sector investment to the nation’s employment-distressed counties. As a result of the private investment set in motion by Biden policies, we are in the middle of an employment, manufacturing and productivity boom in many of the places that had previously been left behind, and benefiting the sorts of workers who had been hit hard by deindustrialization.” — Read More, Free Link

    The Irony is Joe is doing more for Trump rural voters than he ever did. And Brooks left out the dramatic expansion of broadband to their counties.

  15. Is everyone’s cell service out?  Was it Putin? China? NK? Gremlins? 

    Glad to see POTUS Joe is considering an EO on the border. Force Republicans to put(in) up or shut up.

  17. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13112901/Cell-networks-nationwide-Verizon-Mobile-att-down.html

    “Nationwide, 911 operators have warned that the outage has impacted their ability to take calls.”

    “San Francisco Fire Department issued a statement saying they had been made aware of the issue and urged citizens to use try calling from a landline.”

    “The major cellphone companies have yet make any statement regarding the outages. It’s not clear what the caused of the problem.”

  18. Well, just like everything else, the cell service outage hasn’t reached East Bumfuck.  And we still have a landline – it’s effectively free with our cable & internet bundle. Cell service at our house is weak, so we really don’t have much choice but to keep the land line, besides, I believe Mrs. P has a touch of Luddite in her genes.

    UPDATE – 9:15 a.m. East Bumfuck, WV. ATT outage reaches East Bumfuck. LP just called me on our landline. He’s got nada on his phone. Spectrum (shitty as it is) is unaffected.

  20. White Christians are down from a majority of the country to 40%, and evangelicals just one out of seven of them. That’s why they’re shifting from democracy to theocracy, increasingly they can’t win elections.

  22. 5G. Closest Spectrum 5G service is 13 miles NE of East Bumfuck.  I’m stuck with LTE service here, varying from 1 to 4 bars depending on location in the “city”. WiFi is my friend.

  27. Evidently, anyone whose phone service uses AT&T system  is affected. I have cricket and no service. They are suggesting that you use wifi calling. As I have never done it, I certain like everything else involving electronics these days there would be a half a day wasted learning how. As I am in the middle of installing cabinets in my kitchen and can’t think of anybody I need to call. I’ll pass.
    BTW, this morning I tried to contact cricket and couldn’t even sign in. Looked like their web site was mostly down.
    Jack

  28. This is an incredibly sickening time, this lead-up to the Republican nomination. It feels like the Republican party is pulling the plug on America. 

  31. “Sir, if Abraham Lincoln and George Washington came back from the dead…”

     
    …they would say don’t fuck with the spirits. 

  33. All Scump’s anecdotes start out with, “Sir…”
     
    It’s like when somebody in a bar tells you, “Now this ain’t no shit….”  

  36. “…he did it to himself…”

     
    …case to be made that they did it to him – his own voters. In 2016, he didn’t really want to win. Winning was the set-up for scrutiny of his life of crimes. 

  37. My status went from SOS to 5G+ to 5G.  I was told that just because a phone shows 5G status, doesn’t mean it’s actually on 5G.  Not sure what 5G+ is about.   I’m sure the first responders are happy it’s back. MedStar uses some mapping thing from AT&T, so they were finding locations the old fashioned way this morning.    Maybe this is a good lesson for us not to rely on our phones as our sole means of connection with other humans.

  38. my car shipping estimate was way off, $900-$1100 national average, difficult to get accurate estimate without requesting a formal quote

  42. Holy shit! I was told the goal of Christians is to get to Jesus in the afterlife as quick as possible! The ruling deprives the little extrauterines of fulfilling their Christian destiny. They should sue. 

    “…Chief Justice Tom Parker spelled out the implications. The people of Alabama, he declared, have adopted the “theologically based view” that “life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God.” (If the U.S. Supreme Court hadn’t demolished the establishment clause, this opinion would surely violate it.) As a result, Parker continued, the courts have an affirmative duty to protect “the unborn,” including embryos. Any law that “risks the deaths of these little people” is constitutionally suspect. Courts may not engage in the business of “carving out an exception for the people in this case, small as they were.” This reasoning, on its own terms, applies to criminal laws with the exact same force as civil laws. And it means, Parker added, that even if the Alabama Legislature wanted to legalize IVF as it’s currently practiced, the state constitution would prohibit it from doing so.”

     
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/02/abortion-bans-alabama-ivf-explained.html
     
     

  43. Are we supposed to build a welfare state to support existing embryos in perpetuity??

    lol wtf

    Enjoy the Dark Ages, Alabama, any young adult with earning power and half a brain is running outta there tout suite 🫡

  45. Maybe every medical professional from Alabama getting on LinkedIn at the same time crashed the internet 🤔 

  46. Bink, what would that welfare state look like – a walk-in freezer and monthly checks for electricity? 
     
    And as a young adult (32) with earning power and half a brain I ran outta there tout suite in 1984.  I was ahead of my time (for once in my life).

  47. Set those little souls free! 
     

    The Alabama Senate’s Healthcare Committee chairman plans to file a bill that would protect in vitro fertilization following a ruling by the state’s Supreme Court.

    https://www.al.com/news/2024/02/alabama-bill-would-protect-ivf-treatments-after-courts-frozen-embryo-ruling.html?e=87003e1eb754f9d40574ce526134d300&lctg=622f6bce642ba020b90c1251&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Breaking&utm_term=Newsletter_breaking_news

  48. Bwahahahahaha. Mike Lindell loses again. WaPo

    In 2021, MyPillow founder Mike Lindell offered $5 million to anyone who could disprove his claim that he had data showing voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election.
    Now, he must pay a 64-year-old from Nevada that award, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

    Lindell, a prominent election denier and staunch supporter of former president Donald Trump, claimed to have data showing Chinese interference in the 2020 race. If someone could “Prove Mike Wrong,” as the challenge was called, and show the data was unrelated to the election, they would get the payout, Lindell said ahead of an August 2021 “cyber symposium” held in South Dakota where contestants would review the files.

    Robert Zeidman, a computer forensics expert who voted for Trump twice, did just that, a federal judge in Minnesota determined Wednesday, upholding a previous ruling from a private arbitration panel. Zeidman is owed the $5 million payout plus interest, Judge John Tunheim wrote in his Wednesday ruling. The decision is the latest development in a years-long effort to claim the prize, after Zeidman found that the data was not related to the 2020 election.

    Attorneys for Lindell did not immediately respond to request for comment Wednesday evening.
    […]
    In recent years, Lindell has been embroiled in legal and financial troubles, including a $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit from Dominion Voting Systems over false election claims.

    Zeidman reviewed files during the three-day symposium, which he said friends had convinced him to attend.

    “I thought it would be fun and exciting to be part of it,” Zeidman said. “I didn’t expect that I’d be the one so wrapped up in it and coming to the conclusion that I did.”

    Zeidman found that the data did not prove election interference. He later testified during arbitration proceedings that the files he had been given as part of the “Prove Mike Wrong” challenge seemed to be random numbers and letters. One included a flow chart on how elections work and another listed IP addresses, Zeidman said during his testimony.

    Zeidman compiled a 15-page report of his findings and sent a letter to Lindell’s firm asking for the reward. He filed for arbitration the next month after Lindell Management denied his payment request, and a private arbitration panel ruled that Zeidman — the only participant who had submitted a claim — had proved that the data was not related to the 2020 election. The panel required Lindell Management to pay Zeidman within 30 days.

    The payment never arrived, and in May 2023, Zeidman asked a federal court to confirm his arbitration award. Shortly after, Lindell filed for its dismissal. [Obviously, he lost]
    […]

    I bet they didn’t respond.  Better get back to hawking pillows, Mike.  You’re going to need to sell a lot of them.

  49. From the Twitter
    Trump’s request to delay the enforcement of the ENORMOUS $355 million dollar fraud judgement against him has been DENIED by Judge Engoron. The judge emailed Trump’s attorney, Cliff Robert, and told him in less than 30 words that Trump had “failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay.” It should be noted that New York AG Letitia James has already indicated that she will seize his property, including his buildings, if he fails to pay his fraud penalty.

  50. Better get back to hawking pillows, Mike.

     
    Lumpiest things ever. Realized they were in my relatives’ guest room. Now I pack my own.

  51. So aside from ATT wireless going on the fritz, Mike Lindell getting hosed to the tune of $5M in federal Court, what’s gong on today?
    – Trump pretrial motions due in Florida; fight over redactions continues
    – Trump lawyers seek delay in enforcement of $350 million fraud judgment
    – WaPo analysis shows 3 stats that show the failure of the GOP’s Biden impeachment push
    and
    – Another GOP Biden ‘informant.’ Another indictment and link to Russia.
    Nothing much I guess.

  53. jack, kimmel made sure we knew that.

    Joe Biden arrived in Los Angeles to raise money for his campaign, Trump confirmed a list of names on his running mate short list and is busy zeroing in on issues that don’t exist, New York Attorney General Letitia James said that she might seize Trump Tower if he can’t come up with the money to pay his $355 million fine, Hunter Biden’s attorneys say that federal prosecutors mistakenly believed that they found a picture of cocaine that was actually just sawdust, and in celebration of all the POTUS talk this week – we play our very popular game “On The Money!”

     

    BTW, if the loser picks the other loser from FL for his veep, won’t one of them have to move their residence to another state?  am guessing that means bedminster will be the new home.  we’ll know it’s duhsanctus if that move takes place sometime before the convention.

  55. that’s an AI-generated image, see how the quickly the tech is improving and creeping into things?  😨 

  56. the legal brains of sfb were told to f off, no extension.
     
    I do wonder what mental problems lindell has that makes him continue on the road to ruin.  Any sane person would have bailed long ago and gone back to fleecing people with crap pillows.  I suppose five million dollars worth of pillow stuffing machinery might be good.
     
    FBI setting up to investigate AT&T crater to look for hacking or some other vile thing from russia/china.  Twenty-five years ago, maybe a little longer, my loving family gave me an AT&T cell phone with sixty minutes per month voice time, just in case I fall again.  It was nice to call “long distance” at a reduced price. Got rid of AT&T a few years later. Ran the table of carriers, ending up with T-Mobile. I expect at some time in the future even cell phones will be replaced.
     
    Learned ex was scammed on phone call, at least recovered at very last second to call bank and close account.  Upset scammer.  Good.  I spent the morning getting two scammers shut down.  Is good bonking day.

  57. Jeffries names potential GOP allies in Ukraine aid fight (msn.com)

    House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) on Wednesday pointed to a pair of prominent House Republicans as possible partners in the effort to secure a vote on aid to Ukraine.
    Why it matters: Mike Johnson (R-La.) has so far refused to hold a vote on a bipartisan Senate bill with aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.
    […]
    What’s next: Interest groups are beginning to put pressure on staunchly pro-Ukraine Republicans to support a discharge petition.
    One group called Republicans for Ukraine launched a six-figure ad campaign on Wednesday targeting 10 House Republicans, including Turner and Fitzpatrick.

    New Ad Campaign Urges House Republicans to Support Ukraine Aid – Republicans For Ukraine (gopforukraine.com)

    WASHINGTON – February 20, 2024 – Today Republicans for Ukraine launched a new, six-figure ad campaign aimed at persuading House Republicans to support a discharge petition and pass the Senate’s Ukraine bill. The ad highlights the threat America’s enemies pose to our national security if we don’t support our allies.
    The 60-second ad, which you can watch here, features lifelong Republican voters describing the threats to America if we don’t support Ukraine. One Ohio Republican says, “If we deal in weakness in the face of aggression, it’s a clear signal to countries like China to invade Taiwan.”
    The ad will run digitally in the districts of Republicans likely to sign a discharge petition: Mike Gallagher (WI), Ken Buck (CO), Mike McCaul (TX), Mike Rogers (AL), Mike Turner (OH), Don Bacon (NE), Steve Womack (AR), Jake Ellzey (TX), Brian Fitzpatrick (PA), Dan Crenshaw (TX).
    The campaign seeks to reinforce support for Ukraine among House Republicans. Speaker Mike Johnson has refused to bring a bill to the floor that would provide foreign aid—but pro-Ukraine Republicans can sign a discharge petition to force a vote on the bill, as the ad urges. 
    “It only takes four Republicans signing a discharge petition to help our allies and protect our national security. There’s safety in numbers, and the more Republicans who sign, the safer they will be,” said Gunner Ramer, national spokesman for Republicans for Ukraine. “If the Senate bill gets a vote in the House, it would pass overwhelmingly with strong Republican support.”

  58. Damn, Jack.  How could I have overlooked that.
    but here’s another – Biden’s dog Commander bit Secret Service guys 24 times in 2022 – 2023.

  59. Biden campaign boosting this to the kids on TikTok and X, what a clown: Fox contributor says Trump is “connecting with Black America” because Black people “love sneakers… certainly in the inner city”

  62. but we will endeavor to get rid of it.”

    Pilosevic then holds up a cross and says “…and replace it with this right here” in the linked video

  64. Bink, my bad edit, sorry.

    Oops…
    COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — The man who uploaded video of himself exceeding 150 miles per hour on Interstate 25 has been extradited to Colorado, waiting for a court date on misdemeanor charges, including menacing and reckless endangerment. 9NEWS confirmed Rendon Dietzmann was placed in jail in Colorado Springs on Wednesday after authorities in Texas arrested him on a warrant issued by Colorado State Patrol. According to the El Paso County jail, Dietzmann posted bond early Thursday morning.

    https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/colorado-motorcyclist-youtube-arrested-extradicte-jail/73-7a406c69-f283-4a4f-9268-17c20b07124c?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Thursday%20February%2022&utm_content=Thursday%20February%2022+CID_80e1d674c452a2592a6e6638242f94cd&utm_source=tegna%20email%20newsletter&utm_term=READ%20MORE

  65. Polish Foreign Minister made a powerful point on MSNBC, noting that the only time NATO’s mutual defense pact has been activated was for the United States after 9/11. “We sent many brigades to Afghanistan and Iraq for a decade, and we did not send an invoice to your government” — Radoslaw Sikorski

  66. That CPAC jackass admitted it was them (not ANTIFA nor anyone else) who attempted to overthrow the government on J6.  

    Then he claimed that “all glory” belongs to God, not the government, while the MAGAts worship tRUMPsky.  Hypocrite.

    Nah, dude. Render unto Cesar what is Cesar’s, and to God what is God’s.  Separation of church and state, baby.

  67. I have been watching the landing of the first US commercial space vessel to land on the Moon.  It has been confirmed that it found the Lunar surface.  The questions are what orientation it is in, such as head in the sand, or doing the sunlight absorber on its side in a lounge chair, or correct landing, but broke a few of its parts.
    The very good news is that it is talking to control.  The bad news is that the communications are like it broke its jaw and is a touch off.
    Space travel is extremely difficult. I make light of what happened to this vessel, along many others trying to land on the Moon or any other space things. 
     
    Landing on the Lunar surface and not crashing on the Lunar surface is difficult.  The next difficulty is landing upright, that is dependent on so many systems it is difficult to describe in a few words.  Once landed your little spaceship needs to find the sun for your solar power, find Earth to adjust your antenna to talk, verify your electronics are working, and finally say “HI”.  If that fails, your spacecraft needs to figure out how to talk to Earth. Earth is where solutions will come from in case all else fails.
    So, right now 19:15 EST, the little commercial lander has landed.  It is communicating at some level lower than expected.  It probably has antenna placed in different positions so it can communicate in the situation where it is not aimed at Earth.  The various teams will spend the night going over a lot of data to figure out what is going on.  If there are satillites going overhead, those can be used to provide visual information of the bird.
     
    So that is a quick overview.

  69. Thank goodness for telemarketing blocker.  I love that the phone doesn’t ring.  Something more is definitely going on.  I’ve probably had ten calls today, which is twice the number of nuisance calls I normally get in a month.  Of course, it could be campaign calls, but those (which are also a nuisance) come in by text.

  71. OK, now, I don’t know shit, but I know one thing. Raymond Arroyo doesn’t have a fucking clue what would or would not be important to blacks in the inner city. Motherfucker looks like Pee-wee Herman with a bad facelift.

    Tremaine Lee used the right word about the idea that sneakers will get black Americans to vote for Dumbass – idiocy.

  73. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/alabamas-ivf-ruling-embryos-republican-political-bind-rcna140070

    “Alabama’s IVF ruling puts Republicans in a political bind”

    “When you see folks like Tommy Tuberville today or Tim Scott getting uncomfortable answering questions, it’s because they know how incredibly unpopular the position is,” Timmaraju said.

    Not sure it’s that much of a bind for them. Although Republicans have baby fever, they would prefer young women forego higher education and careers in favor of (imposed) motherhood. Keep them dependent on men; support the patriarchy. They certainly don’t want gay couples using IVF to create a family. I think there’s more behind this than fundies demanding that life begin at conception. They are just useful to whatever dystopian end Republicans are determined to drag us.

  74. “Motherfucker looks like Pee-wee Herman with a bad facelift.”

     
    lol, Pogo, almost my exact quote to Mr. Ivy. 

  75. https://www.axios.com/2024/02/23/netanyahu-gaza-war-palestinian-authority-reconstruction

    “Bibi’s post-war plan: No reconstruction in Gaza without demilitarization”

    “It’s the first time Netanyahu has presented any written position on his plans for the day after the war in Gaza. But the principles laid out in Thursday’s document are short on concrete details and largely based on Netanyahu’s public statements from the last few months.”

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