When a person who has inflicted so much pain and suffering on millions of people get the tables turned on him, I have to admit I feel no sorrow. He who lives with the sword will perish by the sword. I would be much more comfortable if we had a President who understood that. Instead of the school yard bully we have.
Todays piece, the first and second movements of The Planets by Gustaf Holts was composed at the beginning of World War I and it reflects the times. It is not my usual pleasant selection for a Sunday morning as the first movement is very dark, however the second is lighter. So please listen to then both and enjoy
Jack
The first movement: Mars, The Bringer of War
The second movement: Venus, the Bringer of Peace.
jack, thank you. good sometimes to just sit down and think. as Sakini said in Teahouse of the August Moon
“Pain make man think.
Thought make man wise.
Wisdom make life endurable.”
so let us think. let us contemplate.
contemplation is a good word in this case for trying to foresee the future resulting from the assassination. reading the bones as it were.
one etymologist points out latin roots “com” (together) + “templum” (a place for the taking of auguries) when unearthing its meaning.
.
No one is saying the bad guy wasn’t a bad guy. What Trump is threatening just happens to be a war crime. World heritage sites are to be avoided even in a full scale war and the White House ass is making them first strike aims. It is treason as it violates US signed global agreements. As much as I would like to see the bastard on trial in the Hague, I don’t think WW III is worth it.
Jack
Thank you for The Planets. Great compositions and certainly cause for contemplation.
it’s fascinating to watch those guys with the sound off sometimes, perhaps imagining them to be a bunch of cavemen out in front of the cave one fine summer evening……
Book of the Week:
THE BIRTH OF TRAGEDY OUT OF THE SPIRIT OF MUSIC
by FW Nietzsche
Australia Is committing climate suicide
BTW, if you want a good variety of reasoned articles on the current situation with Iran I recommend you go to The Atlantic, I subscribed to them last year and have never regretted it. So far no nutcase hawks or doves.
Jack
Things that make you feel ancient. This was the year I graduated from HS
Jamie, I was in Korea when Ed arrived. He didn’t show-up there. But we did have things such as Jack’s magnificent selections for this week. Under direction by the same conductor, this is my favorite movement:
AP via msn:
BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraq’s Parliament called for the expulsion of U.S. forces from the country in reaction to the American drone attack that killed a top Iranian general, raising the prospect of a troop withdrawal that could cripple the battle against the Islamic State group and allow a resurgence of the extremists.
Lawmakers approved a resolution asking the Iraqi government to end the agreement under which Washington sent troops more than four years ago to help fight ISIS. The bill is nonbinding and subject to approval by the Iraqi government but has the backing of the outgoing prime minister.
But the vote was another sign of the blowback from the U.S. airstrike Friday that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and a number of top Iraqi officials at the Baghdad airport. Soleimani was the architect of Iran’s proxy wars across the Mideast and was blamed for the deaths of hundreds of Americans in roadside bombings and other attacks.
Speaking to lawmakers in Parliament, Prime Minister Adel Abdul-Mahdi said that after the killing of Soleimani, the government has two choices: End the presence of foreign troops in Iraq or restrict their mission to training Iraqi forces.
“As a prime minister and supreme commander of the armed forces, I call for adopting the first choice,” Abdul-Mahdi said.
Abdul-Mahdi resigned last year in response to the anti-government protests that have engulfed Baghdad and the mostly Shiite southern provinces. Political factions have been unable to agree on a new prime minister, and Abdul-Mahdi continues in a caretaker capacity.
Asked shortly before the parliamentary vote whether the U.S. would comply with an Iraqi government request for American troops to leave, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo would not answer directly.
“We’ll watch. We’re following very closely what’s taking place in the Iraqi Parliament,” he told CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “It is the United States that is prepared to help the Iraqi people get what it is they deserve and continue our mission there to take down terrorism from ISIS and others in the region.”
A pullout of the estimated 5,200 U.S. troops could not allow ISIS to make a comeback but could also enable Iran to deepen its influence in Iraq.
U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on Fox News that the parliamentary vote is “a bit concerning.”
“The Iranian government is trying to basically take over Iraq’s political system. Iran is bribing Iraqi politicians. To the Iraqi people, do not allow your politicians to turn Iraq into a proxy of Iran,” he said.
The attack that killed Soleimani has dramatically escalated regional tensions and raised fears of outright war.
Amid Iran’s threats of vengeance, the U.S.-led military coalition in Iraq announced Sunday it is putting the fight against Islamic State militants on hold to focus on protecting its troops and bases. The coalition said it is suspending the training of Iraqi forces and other operations in support of the battle against ISIS.
Also, the leader of Lebanon’s Iran-backed Hezbollah group vowed to end the U.S. military’s presence in the Middle East, saying U.S. bases, warships and soldiers are now fair targets.
“The suicide attackers who forced the Americans to leave from our region in the past are still here and their numbers have increased,” Nasrallah said. It was not clear which suicide bombings Nasrallah was referring to. But a 1983 attack on a U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, killed 241 U.S. servicemen and led President Ronald Reagan to withdraw all American forces from the country.
Nasrallah spoke from an undisclosed location, and his speech was played on large screens for thousands of Shiite followers in southern Beirut, interrupted occasionally by chants of “Death to America!” The comments were Nasrallah’s first since Soleimani’s killing.
The majority of about 180 legislators present in Parliament voted in favor of the troop-removal resolution. It was backed by most Shiite members of parliament, who hold a majority of seats. Many Sunni and Kurdish legislators did not show up for the session, apparently because they oppose abolishing the deal.
“The government should work on ending the presence of all foreign forces,” Parliament Speaker Mohamed a-Halbousi said after the vote.
Iraqi officials have decried the killing of the general a violation of Iraqi sovereignty. Abdul-Mahdi called it a “political assassination.”
Killing Iran’s most powerful general marked a turning point in U.S. Mideast policy by elevating a conflict that had previously been more of a shadow war, and by putting in doubt the Pentagon’s ability to keep troops in Iraq.
More broadly, the killing appears to have lessened chances that President Donald Trump will achieve the central goal of his “maximum pressure” campaign against Iran: to compel its leaders to negotiate a new, broader nuclear deal.
The administration also faces troubling questions about the legality of the Soleimani killing, its failure to consult Congress in advance, and the prospect of plunging America into a new Mideast war.
Flatus, Sturge
Thanks for the additions to our Sunday listening. Something on my mind. It is very interesting how history shapes the music. Composers are a product of their times. Mozart had to please the ladies of the Hapsburg court and you can see it in his music. The miracle is that it is any good. That imo is Mozart’s genius. Gustaf has a different audience, (upper middle class England) to please as a result he is rejecting the past but brooding over the future.
Don’t forget in Gustaf’s time, down in Naw’leans they are getting ready to change the musical world
Jack
Hillary Clinton, May 8, 2018
Pat, one of the big risks to Trumps strategy is an all out civil war in Iraq as The Saudi’s and Israel give support to the Sunni factions and Iran supports their Shia allies. Where the Kurds come in is anybodies guess but would not be surprised at a kurd annexation of Kurdish Syria and conflict with Turkey. (remember that other Trump stupidity?)
BTW any WWIII comments belong right up there with any Trump tweet.
Jack
Flatus
sometime I think we are sharing a brain. Neptune is my favorite as well. TY for posting it.
Who else deserves to die so Trump can control the news cycle? Maybe we can compose a prioritized list, together, in service of our nation.
I’m assuming the first million or so will be foreigners with brown skin, right?
Jack, your tunes always sit us for the week ahead. Thanks.
We Americans-have a terrible habit of excusing unlawful killings – by our military, our law enforcement personnel and out legal system – relying on the old saw that the victim was a bad guy and deserved it. When we do that we engage in situational ethics, more often than not based on our arrogant approach to justifying bad actions by our view of Christian religion as the true source of ethics, at its worst. I find it to be reprehensible.
Love the music, BTW.
This afternoon I’m watching Breezus and the Vik’s in a pretty damn good game. Sorry about the Pats, Renee. IMHO it was not in any respect caused by the age of their QB. Tom looked pretty good yesterday – the Pat’s O line, not so much.
Speaking of N’awlins, I whipped up a batch of Zatarain’s cornbread (Jalapeño & cheddar for course) to go with the chili (beef, tomato and beans for change) requested by Mrs. P and happily made by me.
Went to see “1917” with friends yesterday. Phenomenal movie, now I’m binging on World War I documentaries. Such a ridiculous war, started by a foolish assassination. And then monarchs gone crazy. Deja Vu?
So with Iraq telling everyone to GTFO, does that make us an occupying army in violation the sovereignty of Iraq? And what in the hell doe AFF Pompous mean by saying we’re going to “watch” what happens? I hope he and SFB share a metal bench in hell.
ya know, we have been at war with Iran for sometime. It has been a bit of a cold war type situation as Iran has not directly confronted us for the simple reason is that they are too weak to do so. Soleimani was a legitimate target.
For me there are only 2 questions. First was it wise to take him out and second “OK, Mr Trump, what do you do now?”
All the WW III and comparisons to WW I are silly imo. This conflict wouldn’t make a pimple on the ass of WWI, much less total nuclear annihilation.
Jack
Pogo, Just like Obama had to do, we get out. Then come back in when the start screaming for help. It is the game we have played for too many years.
In reality we don’t need the middle east oil. so the question is why?
Jack
Unprovoked extra-judicial killings compromise our reputation and moral authority, weakens the nation in a geo-political context, and debase the service of our military people, in my opinion.
…to be fair, i cried no tears over Soulemani, and it’s nothing new. Trump sure is draining that swamp! Good job, Republicans!
”why?“
…because all roads run through the Middle East, good Sir. Hence, the name.
Bink
What extra-judicial killing?
As I said we have been at war, people get killed in wars even generals.
If you don’t think we are at war you haven’t been paying attention for the last 15 years.
Jack
If you say so.
Hey- let’s meet in the middle and agree that Netanyahu and Republicans have been trying to start a war with Iran for 15 years.
Hooray, consensus building!
I think the interesting thing is that even when the truth serves team Trump has to lie. It is who they are.
So bink, are you trying to get Iran off the hook?
(edit)
Never mind , I surrender, I’m too old to argue this again. Like I told the 20 something yr old nieces and nephews. I quit, it is your problem.
Jack
Off the hook for what? We are interjecting in a regional territorial conflict, i don’t see everything in black and white.
Your arguments disregard the nuclear treaty Trumpco. backed out of, not for nothing.
Every POTUS gets a few of these, i suppose. Obama was a big fan of the extra-judicial drone, if i remember correctly.
Ok, good chat, sincerely. ✌️ in the ME.
…good episode this week, dovetails in with the discussion, somewhat:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/667/wartime-radio
Something like 400 million people live in all of the mideast and western asia, out of nearly 8 billion worldwide. Why do we bother?
I don’t claim to know much about international law, which is not really a matter of laws as much as agreed norms for conduct in affairs between nations. There are exceptions such as the Geneva accords. I was listening to a discussion yesterday about Suleimani’s killing suggesting that such a non battlefield killing of an enemy commander violates international law. As I said I don’t claim to be an expert on the subject, and in fact know very little about such things. I’d like to know Flatus’ and BB’s thoughts on that. My sense is that is in their wheelhouses.
Medical records, someone asked? How about this fool’s med records done by a legit doc? Why did he go to the hospital recently? Was it a mental hospital?
People say Bernie and Biden are old. The fool’s 73 freakin’ years old. He’s OLD! And he’s FAT. Yep, gotta body shame a fool who wants women to be perfect.
bink, what nuclear deal?
NYTimes:
Iran Ends Nuclear Limits as Killing of Iranian General Upends MideastIran Ends Nuclear Limits as
BEIRUT — The consequences of the American assassination of a top Iranian general rippled across the Middle East and beyond on Sunday, with Iran ending commitments it made to limit its nuclear fuel production and Iraqi lawmakers voting to expel American forces from their country.
[…]
On Sunday, the Iranian government said it was abandoning its “final limitations in the nuclear deal,” the international agreement intended to prevent Tehran from developing nuclear weapons. The decision leaves no restrictions on Iran’s nuclear program, the statement said, including on uranium enrichment, production, research and expansion.
Iran will, however, continue its cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency and return to the nuclear deal if the economic sanctions imposed on it are removed and Iran’s interests guaranteed, the government said. American sanctions have hit Iran’s oil-based economy particularly hard.
[continues]
Bernie (and Khanna) trying to block funding for another unauthorized war (with Iran). Would the Repugz in Congress have the cajones to actually vote for war?
Don’t you feel safe with the foreign-policy geniuses at TrumpCo. at the helm, patd?
BiD, well, hell yes they would…but no bill to fund a war will come out of the house, so WGAS?
Craig – it is a way for the Russian (Soviet) military to get out in the open. Russia has no blue water ports in the north. They need the Black Sea to move out. Right now SFB has brought the U.S. Navy out of the Black Sea. Why? I will let other military experts explain that move, which occurred just before he ordered a hit on someone.
Watching Katie DC and SFB is now threatening Iraq with sanctions. Iran, Isis (or whatever they may call themselves now) and Russia are toasting his utterly stupid threat – and you can bet it ain’t with Trump (rotgut) Vodka.
Russia’s economy is about the size of Italy’s. Let them spend it down in the middle east.
As McCain once said, “Russia is a gas station masquerading as a nation.”
pogo, IMpotus neither cares about international law nor the U.S. constitution and our laws. am beginning to wonder if any of the gopers do since not hearing a peep out of them for his violation of impoundment act and his snubbing congress on their war and oversight powers.
what we have now looks to be a nascent dictator dumping in his diapers.
the hill:
The House Foreign Affairs Committee slammed President Trump on Sunday after Trump appeared to write that his tweets served as sufficient notification to Congress in the event of a potential military strike against Iran.
The Democratic-led panel, in a tweet mirroring the language Trump himself used in his message, warned the president that he was not a “dictator” and that Congress has the power to authorize acts of war.
“This Media Post will serve as a reminder that war powers reside in the Congress under the United States Constitution. And that you should read the War Powers Act. And that you’re not a dictator,” the committee tweeted.
Earlier on Sunday, Trump tweeted a warning that the U.S. would respond to any aggression from Iran with a potentially “disproportionate” response. He also appeared to suggest that his tweets sufficed as notification to Congress before such a move.
“These Media Posts will serve as notification to the United States Congress that should Iran strike any U.S. person or target, the United States will quickly & fully strike back, & perhaps in a disproportionate manner. Such legal notice is not required, but is given nevertheless!” Trump tweeted.
House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.) has vowed to oppose any military action by the Trump administration not sanctioned ahead of time by Congress and has released a statement vowing his personal vote against war with Iran should it be put up to a vote in the House.
“The American people don’t want war with Iran, and neither do I,” Engel tweeted Saturday. “We need to send a clear message to the White House: don’t plunge this country into an ill-conceived war against Iran.”
The exchange comes after Trump authorized an airstrike that killed Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the head of Iran’s Quds Force. The move, which was unexpected, shook the foreign policy establishment in Washington and sparked new fears of a war breaking out between Washington and Tehran.
[click on link to see actual tweets]
NEW THREAD