The flap over House Speaker Paul Ryan firing the chamber’s chaplain underscores why James Madison was against Congress establishing religion with this post.
During the first Congress, Madison moved unsuccessfully to forbid the appointment of chaplains. He had been the principal architect of the First Amendment, including its clause that there shall be no law “respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
When James Madison opposed the hiring of chaplains in Congress, he emphasized that paying them from the national treasury was in violation of the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. He also made the enduring point that establishing the clergy in Congress was an offense “to members whose creeds and consciences forbid a participation in the majority.” (Washington Times)
“If Religion consist in voluntary acts of individuals, singly, or voluntarily associated, and it be proper that public functionaries, as well as their Constituents should discharge their religious duties, let them, like their Constituents, do so at their own expense.” — James Madison
I would add that praying for politicians to do the right thing, even when done by professional clergy, is about as productive as howling at the moon to hasten the daylight.
Roger Williams wanted to protect the church from the state & Thomas Jefferson wanted to protect the state from the church.
Mr Williams also wrote: Forced religion stinketh in God’s nostrils. He was concerned that a government that enforced the viewpoint of one religion could also enforce that no religion would be allowed as the official religious policy.
We need more wisdom from seventeenth century contemporaries.
One of the most striking sentences I ever read was in a biography about Roger Williams: “He grew up with the smoke of the martyrs of Smithfield in his nose.”
He knew of what he wrote & spoke.
Many of our Founding Fathers, enlightened men, owed much to Roger Williams.
from AU piece “James Madison and Church-State Separation”
In 1833, just three years before his death, Madison observed in a letter to the Rev. Jasper Adams, “[I]t may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded against by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect against the trespasses on its legal rights by others.”
gop god and guns go hand in hand
Exclusive: NRA gathers documents amid scrutiny over ties to Kremlin-linked banker
Washington (CNN)The National Rifle Association is setting aside years of documents related to its interactions with a Kremlin-linked banker, as the gun-rights group appears to be bracing for a possible investigation, according to sources familiar with the situation.
The NRA has faced fresh scrutiny from congressional investigators about its finances and ties to Alexander Torshin, one of the 17 prominent Russian government officials the US Treasury Department recently slapped with sanctions. The gun-rights group has said it is reexamining its relationship with Torshin, who is a lifetime NRA member, in the wake of the sanctions.
The renewed attention has highlighted the close-knit if sometimes uneasy alliance between top NRA officials and Torshin — a relationship that ensnared members of Trump’s team during the presidential campaign, inviting further congressional scrutiny.
Those inquiries could shed light on the tightly held fundraising practices and political activities of the NRA. The political powerhouse shelled out more than $30 million in 2016 to back Donald Trump’s candidacy — more than it spent on 2008 and 2012 political races combined, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Vice President Mike Pence is slated to speak at the National Rifle Association’s annual convention in Dallas next Friday, an official told CNN.
The NRA recently found itself facing allegations that the FBI was investigating whether Torshin illegally funneled money through the group to bolster Trump, according to a McClatchy report. The NRA has publicly denied any contact from the FBI and insisted it hasn’t accepted illegal donations.
Despite the public denials, officials at the gun-rights group have been anxiously preparing as if they were already under investigation, sources said. Some employees have been tasked with preserving years of documents mentioning Torshin or his associate, Maria Butina, who runs a pro-guns group in Russia, a source familiar with the situation said. Privately, some officials have expressed anxiety about a potential investigation and the group’s Russian ties.
[…]
When Donald Trump Jr. arrived for a dinner on the sidelines of the NRA’s 2016 annual meeting in Louisville, some attendees — including NRA officials — were startled to discover Torshin and Butina already present at the restaurant where the reception was being held, according to sources familiar with the event. Torshin and Butina weren’t invited to the dinner, but they were asked to stay and speak anyway.
“Donald J. Trump Jr. was attending an NRA convention and having dinner when an acquaintance asked him to say hello to Torshin and made an introduction,” said Alan Futerfas, an attorney for Trump Jr. “They made small talk for a few minutes and went back to their separate meals. That is the extent of their communication or contact.”
The seemingly impromptu encounter left some officials at the gun-rights group wondering whether it was a setup by the Russians, sources said.
Throughout the campaign, a number of people made overtures to Trump campaign aides on Torshin’s behalf. Those emissaries sometimes touted their NRA connections as they aimed to helped Torshin quietly facilitate a relationship between then-presidential candidate Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
In one such email, a conservative activist reached out on Torshin’s behalf to say his goal was
“cultivating a back-channel to President Putin’s Kremlin.”
The activist added, “Putin is deadly serious about building a good relationship with Mr. Trump,” according to the House Intelligence Committee reports.
The outreach efforts reached Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, campaign manager Paul Manafort, his deputy Rick Gates, then-campaign adviser Rick Dearborn and Jeff Sessions, then a foreign policy adviser and now the attorney general, according to emails reviewed by the House Intelligence Committee.
[…continues…]
Quite a week. Anyone remember what happened last Monday? Me either.
Even though it is a far right, white supremacist, greedy old pervert world, one of the nastiest of the far right sites is ill. Terminating writers (formerly called bloggers), especially those who are not as enthusiastic for SFB as required in the new world. The take over of the gop by SFB is continuing. all stand and heil tiny hands.
*
apropos story in wapo this morning: Paul Ryan dismissed the House chaplain. Wait, why does Congress even have a chaplain?
[….]
In the early days of the American Revolution, the Continental Congress approved the role of military chaplains, and it chose Anglican minister Jacob Duché to be its first chaplain in 1774. The founders debated how to pick someone among the different denominations represented, but they ultimately decided that the main question was whether the person supported the American Revolution.
Duché’s prayers were politicized, said Spencer W. McBride, author of “Pulpit and Nation: Clergymen and the Politics of Revolutionary America.” But as long as the clergyman was criticizing Britain, McBride said, it was considered okay. Then, however, Duché resigned his role and switched sides to favoring Britain. He wrote a famous letter to George Washington urging him to give up the fight and was exiled back to Britain.
“We see this tradition where Americans don’t mind if clergymen speak on politics, so long as they agree,” McBride said. The Continental Congress then appointed two chaplains — a Presbyterian and an Anglican — with the goal of not showing favoritism.
[…continues…]
But the Critterz love hiding behind the Bible. Having a chaplain looks good.
When religion and politics mix, it is always a good idea to invite Mark Twain to comment, particularly on the status of a professional vs a practicing Christian. For this outing, Report from the Recording Angel will do.
You can read the whole accounting of one Christian, but the essence is the breakdown of the types of prayer:
I know how to stop it. Tell them they have to have an imam.
For Paul Ryan
Vino Rossa is going to need a howdah to carry all the trailmixers on board: Sturgeone, KGC, BB, and BW.
As to horses there are lots with gin in their names, my favorite was born in 2014 sired by Liquor Cabinet out of Shesgotherownjet. His grandfather was Hennessy.
we will need a Clydesdale
Whenever I talk about James Madison’s key role in the Bill of Rights I like to do a shout out to George Mason, whose Virginia Bill of Rights he wrote was the model for our federal version. Also, we we might not have gotten it done without Mason’s passionate advocacy. So much so that he refused to vote for the Constitution at the Philadelphia convention because it did not include a Bill of Rights, and he did not rest until getting it enacted.
Kentucky Oaks Contenders if anyone else wants to bet on the ladies:
Rank
Points
Horse
Jockey
Trailmix
1
160
Midnight Bisou
Mike Smith
2
154
Monomoy Girl
F. Geroux
3
115
Sassy Sienna
Gary Stevens
4
112
My Miss Lilly
J. Bravo
5
100
Chocolate Martini
James Graham
6
100
Coach Rocks
Luis Saez
7
90
Rayya
Patrick Dobbs
XR
8
84
Wonder Gadot
D. Cabrera
9
80
Eskimo Kisses
Corey Lanerie
Jamie
10
70
Take Charge Paula
TBD
11
40
Amy’s Challenge
Jareth Loveberry
12
50
Blamed
Ken Tohill
14
35
Patrona Margarita
Brian Hernandez, Jr
15
30
Classy Act
Javier Castellano
Coincidence Correlation Causation? Interesting speculation.
White guys who were home-schooled by Christian conservatives keep killing people.
In a real world the president saying it’s “tough to watch” disabled athletes would be a very big deal …
During an event with Team USA Olympians and Paralympians at the White House, President Trump said, “What happened with the Paralympics was so incredible and so inspiring to me. And I watched — it’s a little tough to watch too much, but I watched as much as I could.”
He just seems to miss the whole point about what is important about everything. Best comment heard on TV today:
Jamie, please put me down for My Miss Lilly, the beautiful silver grey #4
it’s only fitting that a filly called lilly should win the lilies for the fillies that day.
Finlandia® Oaks Lily® The Official Drink of the Kentucky Oaks
Ingredients
1 1/4 oz. Finlandia® Vodka
1 oz. Sweet and Sour Mix
1/4 oz. Triple Sec
3 oz. Cranberry Juice
the hill:
Jill Stein campaign declines doc requests in Senate Russia probe
Former Green Party candidate Jill Stein’s campaign has refused to comply fully with a request from the Senate Intelligence Committee for information and documents made as part of the committee’s investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, The Intercept reported Thursday.
The committee is reportedly looking into whether Stein’s campaign was involved with a Russian effort to interfere in the election.
In a letter to the committee denying access to certain documentation, the Stein campaign’s lawyers wrote that the request was “so overbroad in reach as to demand constitutionally protected materials.”
The Stein campaign did provide part of the committee’s request, but refused to turn over the campaign’s internal communications regarding Russian policy, calling them “not pertinent to the subject of Russian interference” in the elections.
The campaign, however, has said it will provide details about Stein’s proposed Russia policy to the committee.
The committee also requested all communications with “Russian persons, or representatives of Russian government, media, or business interests, including but not limited to any communications, discussions, or offers related to opposition research, from February 6, 2015 to the present.”
According to The Intercept, Stein’s campaign has already turned over communications with members of the Russian government and media, but have yet to release communication records with “all people of Russian descent.”
Stein’s campaign says it will not turn over those communications, writing in the letter that it will “not be disclosing names of persons with whom they have ever communicated, including American political supporters, targeted because they happen to be Russian immigrants or of Russian descent. We reiterate here that the responding parties will not participate in a hunt for identification of persons based on nationality or descent.”
Stein, who represented the Green Party in 2016 along with vice presidential candidate Ajamu Baraka, won just over one percent of the popular vote nationwide.
Re the stein Campaign docs : I think the Senate Intelligence committee should clarify whom the mean when they write, “people of Russian descent.” More than half of the people whose ancestors came from the russian Empires weren’t russians. Poles, Estonians, Kazakhs, Jews, Aleuts, Armenians, Tungus, Ukrainians, Karelians (Finns), Turkmans (Turks), Tatars, Moldovans (romanians), Mongols, Uzbeks (Mongols), Belarussians, Georgians, Kirghiz (Mongols), Lithuanians, Chechens, Kurds, Siberians, Inuits, Tanu Tuvians (Tibetans), Latvians, Tajiks (Iranians), Pathans (Afghans), Karaites, Germans, Koreans, Azeri (Turks), etc. We are not russians.
I wanna know how Karelian liquor interests infiltrated our blogosphere; investigation demanded.
Jill Stein is a professional candidate who runs for office for the sole purpose of keeping up her speaking engagement fees and all the tax deductible and campaign funds stuff she can milk for free travel, meals and personal expenses. I don’t know how many of her followers sat home or did write ins or whatever, but the combo of Stein and Sanders bad mouthing of Hillary were just another piece of the insanity that gave us Trump.
The far right insanity, far left insanity, media focus on eyeballs and ratings, rampant misogyny, outdated, slave and agricultural based EC and who knows how much Russian interference all managed to move 70,000 votes in three states.
As a result a brilliant, hardworking, decent woman making her own share of campaign mistakes with an assumption of inevitability and failure to break through the media email storm to communicate her excellent policies to a general public wasn’t elected and the country is suffering because of it.
A cavalier “everything’s entertainment” attitude sunk this country. Pass the popcorn!
Bink–this is an unusual arrangement for entertainment–paying the bill over and over again after the fact
It’s actually SOP for business, these days, Flatus, thanks to the genius that invented “auto-renew” subscriptions.
Although today is supposed to be a no politics day to avoid various body reactions, I am listening to Lovett or Leave It Fox & Friends with Benefits. Although the link is to a podcast, check out Crooked Media for more.
Patd
I have you for the Lillies (female and floral)
And I watched — it’s a little tough to watch too much, but I watched as much as I could.”
I feel that way every time I see trump speak.
anybody around for the Correspondents’ Dinner
Patd – the current version of Finlandia vodka is nothing like the original imported in the early 70’s. Back then I think the proof was something like 100. But then I am an American Finn and want everyone to heat up in a Sauna and then run out and jump in a lake through a hole in the ice, or role in the snow. Naked.
Just discovered an amazing singer, who unfortunately now is deceased. An Australian documentary has just been released about his life: Gurrumul
bbronc, is the original finlandia vodka anything like aquavit.? that stuff knocks one’s socks off (and other bits of clothes in time) ….can see how such drinks help Scandinavians thru the cold winters
I see Michelle Wolf is hosting the WHCD- she has a really solid stand-up act, i look forward to the highlights of hers.
My pal, Elgin Wells, died in China last week, practicing for an air show. His dad was a World War II pilot and taught Elgin to fly, down in Atlanta……But You’d have to call him musician/pilot because he was both…….he played guitar, trumpet, and goddam near anything else while we were on tour together with Joe Savage, the Snake Man, back in ’72.
He was an ornery cuss, but he loved flying that airplane.
im sorry, I can’t find this video except on my stupid blog so just scroll down to the last post on this page, if you will.
http://bluescrab.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-02-23T05:09:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=210&by-date=false
That was a nice tribute to your friend. I’m sorry for your loss.
Hahaha, we loved that guy, JoeSavage………and the stories…….
Joe had snakes before Alice Cooper…….he had snakes when snakes weren’t cool…..
I’m sorry, Mr Sturgeone.
flatus, your wish is our command. not just highlights but the whole and full monty
the guardian’s take: White House correspondents’ dinner: Michelle Wolf shocks media with Sarah Sanders attack
The comedian Michelle Wolf stunned guests at a prestigious media dinner in Washington with a risque speech that eviscerated members of Donald Trump’s administration, some of whom were in the room.
Sean Spicer, the former White House press secretary, told the Guardian he thought the performance was “absolutely disgusting”, but others praised Wolf for pulling no punches about the president and his aides.
She drew gasps from some in the 3,000-strong audience at the Hilton hotel on Saturday when she turned her fire on Spicer’s secretary, Sarah Sanders, sitting just a few feet away at the head table. “Every time Sarah steps up to the podium, I get excited,” the comedian said. “I’m not really sure what we’re going to get, you know? A press briefing, a bunch of lies or divided into softball teams. ‘It’s shirts and skins, and this time don’t be such a little bitch, Jim Acosta,” – a reference to a CNN correspondent who has clashed with Sanders.
Wolf continued: “I actually really like Sarah. I think she’s very resourceful. But she burns facts and then she uses that ash to create a perfect smokey eye. Like maybe she’s born with it, maybe it’s lies. It’s probably lies.”
Sanders looked stony faced and there were both laughs and groans. But Wolf was not done: “I’m never really sure what to call Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Is it Sarah Sanders, is it Sarah Huckabee Sanders, is it Cousin Huckabee, is it Aunt Huckabee Sanders? What’s Uncle Tom but for white women who disappoint other white women? Ah I Know, Aunt Coulter,” – referring to the rightwing pundit Ann Coulter.
[….continues….]
craig, wakey wakey…
am much in need of jace’s refreshing shower of sunday serendipity after that whcd show
patd
I was just about to start a “We Want Jace!!” chant and you beat me to the idea again.
Mixed review on Michelle Wolf. Some of the jokes were funny. Loved the comparison of Sarah Sanders to Aunt Lydia and the one about CNN breaking News. I didn’t like her delivery. She kept stepping on her own jokes with after and echoing remarks. Kept thinking this would be better if they had invited Kathy Griffin.
Jamie, agree, she over-stepped in some cases.
as for music, maybe this will do until the boss awakens…. something from days long gone
Well if we are going to time travel:
Well, I liked Michelle’s “speech” (not sure what to call it) but I’ve seen her do better delivery on Comedy Central. Gotta say her jokes were right on even if her delivery was a bit off.
Gene Raskin wrote the English lyrics to the above, but I couldn’t resist the original Russian and the exact translation.
Mrs. P & I went and saw Verdi’s Requiem last night in the ‘burg. Full orchestra, full chorus, 4 world class soloists. Wonderful music but requiems arent normally light and uplifting-and this was no exception. But it was a great piece of music performed well.
Perhaps there is no jace this week ?
Last night’s shindig brings up the question if it is wise for press members to socialize with those they are covering. Good relations, bad relations …. should some circumstances stay strictly professional? This plays into this thread topic of the wisdom of mixing religious figures with political. Fences make good neighbors. You can be cordial, respectful, yet distant. There really is no such thing as fair or balanced because every person has opinions & prejudices. But at least trying to keep a distance lends more credence to what one is reporting. Optics matter.
WHCD…all about free speech and how broke is trump?
I was glad to see suckabee roasted as she was the brave soulless-one from the WH to sit snub the press…she does this everyday while lying to the American people because like the justice dept.? trump owns it, not the citizens. I was almost excited as Michelle has also noticed the sarah’s smoky eye…there is coal coming out of her eyes…but her ash characterization…more biblical to piss-off the evangelicals.
The lady comedian has a mouth like andrew dice clay. And at one time? roseanne barr was just as cutting. Not any more, she dresses in nazi uniforms and is now a sycophant. As I cling to my humor, trump has been tough on humor…look at Kathy Griffin. Yes, the non-laughable first amendment. I am glad to see trump skewered as he deserves it…he can dish it out, but he can’t take it. As comey says, trump never laughs. He just kills people and ruins their lives…ha, ha, ha
Up in smoke and I am sure he will be cremated…burning man founder is dead.
I thought Margaret Talev’s presentation? Too rushed and jumbled. She has no sense of timing.
pompeo traveling the globe to
givesell our allies weapons of mass destruction as we are retiring — the plan mapped-out by the mustache-in-chief! Japan, S. Korea, UAE, Germany…take our guns and planes, please! We are forging ahead with nuclear peace on peninsula (who knows if the n. korean program was not just a fake pile of papers like trump’s props)? At the same time? Dumping a nuclear (for real) deal with iran…let the UAE and israel fight their own war. The price of gas keeps rising here, so trump doesn’t care about any oil other than russia’s! We will supply the world with arms, russia will own all of the gas stations…all to keep the chinese global silk road moving forward. Contested modernity.sjwny, jace is pending according to the dashboard…. it’s the boss that’s awol
Jamie, thanks for the Russian version. noted that the chorus sounds like they’re singing “lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie……”
mystery missing tree… nothing left but yellowed turf (those pesky Russian prostitutes at it again?)
the guardian: Tree planted at White House by Trump and Macron appears to have vanished
Pictures taken by a Reuters photographer appeared to show that a tree planted at the White House this week by Donald Trump and Emmanuel Macron has vanished.
The tree, an oak sapling from the site of a pivotal first world war battle involving the US marines, was a gift presented by the French president as part of his state visit to Washington.
In a tweet, Macron said: “100 years ago, American soldiers fought in France, in Belleau to defend our freedom. This oak tree (my gift to [Donald Trump]) will be a reminder at the White House of these ties that bind us.”
Macron and Trump planted it on Monday, using golden shovels and with wives Brigitte Macron and Melania Trump looking on.
The planting ceremony prompted speculation on social media, particularly about whether the French president had been “trolling” Trump over his environmental policies and withdrawal from the Paris climate accord.
Photographs taken by Yuri Gripas of Reuters on Saturday showed only a yellow patch of grass in the spot on the White House grounds where the tree was planted.
French media were quick to take notice. The French edition of Huffpost quoted a French government official as saying the oak was “doing well” but was under quarantine.
The White House did not immediately comment.
Pip watch has begun on the Arboretum eagles nest.
Mr. P is currently on the eggs.
You can tell them apart as Mr. P has a bright, gold bill and pale talons while First Lady has a pale bill and bright yellow talons.
I checked pending and Fearless Leader seems to have gotten the date wrong. Jace is scheduled for tomorrow. Does anyone have editorial rights for the posts of others to change the date from 4/30 to 4/29? I can only alter my own posts.
It looks like Jace is scheduled for Monday, April 30.
Must be the pre-op drugs
NEW THREAD. Sorry about the late posting, I messed the scheduling.