Democrats hedged and stumbled but finally made it to the high ground regarding John Conyers and Al Franken. Republicans hedged and stumbled but finally made it to the low ground regarding Roy Moore.
Query: Did Democrats make a dumb move?
My take: No.
Zero tolerance of sexual misconduct is the right thing, but there’s also a pragmatic reason. The recently surprising race for governor of Virginia showed that suburban voters, especially women, in reddish counties are open to electing a Democrat. My guess is that across the country in 2018 a GOP party best known for Moore and Donald Trump will drive those swing voters, who are increasingly repulsed by the Republican brand, to the party on the high ground.
What’s your take?
HOUSEKEEPING: We are having some problems with our login system. Currently running a temporary fix while we investigate what’s going on, so no guarantees it’ll keep running today. If you find that you can’t save a comment or login please let me know so that I can hop on it quickly: help@craigcrawford.com
(Glad the site’s working again. I hope that if it’s absence was a result of malicious internet assholes, they join Roy Moore and the Repugs who are pissing on the poor in that special circle of hell reserved for him)
Well, Poobah, we dems have now rent our clothes, donned sack cloth and ashes and thrown ourselves on our swords (I hope I’m not mixing too many metaphors). My fear is that it is a gesture that will have exactly the following effects:
1. One of our better Senators will no longer be in the Senate;
2. A slime ball who makes Franken’s deeds look like a thirteen year old’s stupid pranks will be elected;
3. We will get marginal, if any, political advantage for taking the moral high ground.
If we do not see any real gains in the suburbs of Birmingham and Mobile, we will have shot ourselves in the proverbial foot. Screw the suburbs of DC – by the time the elections roll around next November, this will be fifteen manufactured crises removed from the voters’ consciousness.
Screw due process, demonstrate your purity. I’m sorry but I think this was a mistake. But maybe a few Dems will sleep better at night knowing that on one more issue dems are in the morally superior party, and all the while the country is taken down a RW path toward the 1920s by a crazy moron abetted by a soulless repugnican congress. I hope I’m wrong – I fear I’m right.
God bless the United Suzzss.
“Revolution for the hell of it”
It is an Abby Hoffman world, From Bannon to Bernie and beyond. While the 2 parties burn their houses down I think I will just sit on the sidelines and ponder.
Jack
Zero tolerance in the absence of due process is wrong. To be forced to resign in the face of allegations without due process of those allegations is wrong. To have a life and reputation ruined without due process is wrong.
I believe that the moral high ground should be based on the quest for truth. I believe that the pursuit of truth leads to the moral high ground.
No woman or man brave enough to present her or his truth should be ignored. But no accused should be branded without due process. See Duke lacrosse scandal, circa 2006.
Signed, your friendly neighborhood idealistic progressive liberal.
looks like we’ve got it fixed, testing
Purity purge 2017
It’s just stupid. Like finding and dwelling upon flaws in Team Clinton.
I guess Trump and Moore will soon be out after this. Right?
It’s really all up to Mueller now, cause the democrats would rather climb up a tree and act stupid than stand on the ground and fight.
Yay team.
Sorry about today’s outage. Turns out I had not been paying attention to our database storage limit for posts, images and comments. We were just over the 300MB ceiling. For just $60 I boosted it to 1000, so carry on.
I’ll leave this post up tomorrow morning since it was shut down all day.
I’m with Travis on this one while understanding why some people felt it was necessary for political expediency. A few of those (yes I’m talking about holier than thou Gillibrand) were way too enthusiastic and forceful in the demands that Al Franken be pilloried and pelted. Barring her being the only Democrat left standing once she removes her knives from between the ribs of Clinton and Franken, she has lost any support from me.
December 7, 2017 at 2:22 am
To put a button on this the only truth about my old pal Leeann Tweeden’s Al Franken story was the picture. The rest was created by KABC colleague & fellow Trump supporter John Phillips & his bud Roger Stone who coached Leeann for weeks to take Al down. Mission accomplished.
Tom Arnold@TomArnold4h
View details ·
I’ve gone to bat for Leeann 100 times this last month hoping she’d at least reveal her whole truth too but she ghosted me. I know every single detail of this political manipulation. KABC should lose their license. Promoting a fraud is a federal offense & FCC violation.twitter.com/nealpeterson13…
View details ·
I’m disappointed with my friend Leeann Tweedon. Her partner at KABC John Phillips is a Roger Stone pal & they coached her for weeks to bring Al Franken down. I’d hoped she’d use her voice to speak out for all women again predators like Roy Moore & Donald Trump but she’s a birther
—–Tom Arnold
Click to EditDelete
Franken leaves Dems a powerful 2018 talking point: “I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.”
So if the Democrats are so pure, why haven’t we seen a hue and cry about Menendez resigning. He was a sitting Senator at the time.
Jack
I’m with Pogo, Jack, and Travis… in the meantime… the court is being stacked with strict constructionist judges… healthcare is being taken away from children… California is burning away… and there may be war about to break out in the Middle East.
and oh yeah… the rich keep getting richer…
Jack – obviously a grope is worse than being on the take to the Dems.
At some point, hopefully very soon, the Dems find a message for 2018. Along the way, they should find some brass gonads because so far very few are doing more than yelling “throw the dem out”.
Franken speech reminded me of a GW Plunkitt piece.
Reformers are Only Mornin’ Glories.,
Franken admitted he was never a politician and he had a lot to learn. This mess proved he wasn’t up to it. He couldn’t hit the curve ball. Politics is a skill and it takes training and talent. Franken had the talent but not the experience. From presidential contender to has been, in just 2 weeks and guess who lead the charge? Fellow senator/presidential aspirant Kristen Gillibrand, who’s family roots, go back years in New York Politics to the Albany Democratic machine. Now, what do you know one less problem on her route to the nomination,
So if anybody really believes this about sex , come here, have I got a deal for you.
Jack
Well, I’m glad to see that it was just a technical glitch, for a while I wondered if the women all went on strike after reading the first 4 comments. };-)
Jack
There should be a crowd checking of Franken’s accusers
What has still been left behind
A grim, grim day for the Democrats. Throwing out our best and brightest? Kamikazing ourselves on Pearl Harbor Day. Good grief.
Speaking of Dec.7, a friend who worked at the FDR site in Hyde Park once arranged a special tour of its library for me and my husband.We were taken into “the vault” for a look at FDR’s Day of Infamy speech. There on the typed draft, was that word, in FDR’s hand: infamy. God, what a thrilling piece of history and genius. What a word and what a man.
Here’s another word: idiots. That would be the Senate Democrats. And as I’m reading that the women senators were behind this, here’s another word: harassment. They harassed a good man out of a role he excelled at, just because of optics and convenience. That’s a whole lot worse than anything of which he was accused. That’s absolute moral corruption. In high heels (which is harder on the soles).
Still, even on this grim day there’s humor if you look for it. Today’s Democratic leadership would harass FDR out of office, too. Because you just know he wouldn’t pass their moral muster, not with his philandering and ogling of women. No, sir. He would be history.
Well said, Travis.
Yes, Travis, your 11:59 post was spot on. Tried to affirm it all afternoon. Finally had to go do stuff at home. Glad to see things up and running again.
So here’s my take on the way draining the swamp goes…
Get rid of anything or anyone who’s decent and smart – Dems only – and fill the void with repug sewage.
An intermission from the daily grind.
Happy Holidays.
Happy Festivus.
For the rest of us.
Truth and Justice are the twin daughters of Time and Effort. In this age of seven second (or less) sound bites, we have neither the patience, the strength, nor the attention span to marry Time and Effort. A march on the Capitol with torches and pitchforks, aimed at establishing the purest of Purity is ever so much quicker. Therefore, of the fruit of Time and Effort, which are Truth and Justice, we shall not eat. And so, regarding Al Franken and John Conyers . . .
Off with their seats !
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one.
Where were you when you heard the news December 8, 1980?
Belated congrats to Time for their choice of Persons of the Year. Purely symbolic, but they got it.
No politician is irreplaceable. We survived the loss of Lincoln at the most critical junction of our very existence. True he was replaced by awful men but we survived. The earth continues to rotate on its axis, revolve around the sun. Woe is me/ the sky is falling does little to advance society or contribute to a better government. What we learn, how we react, who comes to the fore, who falls to the wayside defines our mettle as Americans. Scared of the future? Nonsense. Embrace obstacles. It makes us stronger.
2018 is weeks away. OK Democrats, ready to field a team, bring up prospects from the minors, jettison those past their prime? Sign free agents who will energize voters & pique interest? Cultivate new markets & think outside the box.
No woman or man brave enough to present her or his truth should be ignored. But no accused should be branded without due process.
amen, travis, amen
Heard the news on Murphreesboro Rd, Nashville….8 Dec 80,
Heard it from Charles Kuralt.
A frigid morning glory to the trail…it is 24 degrees with 76 percent humidity here in Las Cruces. Awaiting the daylight…the astronomical sunrise (twilight) has begun.
Keeping their eye on the ball…Australia bans foreign interference in politics and ‘anyone’ caught will be viewed as treason or espionage. Meanwhile, the US of AA has their head in sexual misconduct and the other half is ignoring sexual crime. The evangelicals are supposed to be the moral ones and the dems/liberals the immoral ones since they are only viewed as baby killers by evangelicals and nothing else matter. Sexual child abuse is rampant everywhere in every religion and in every town. evangelicals think nothing of bringing their underage children to abortion rallies. That should be charged as child abuse. Young humans have no safety or CHIP at this point. Suffer the children.
Consenting, of age humans are doing a bad job leading by example. As for Franken? I think someone in the dem party did not want him to run in 2020. Early hit job.
“I know in my heart that nothing I have done as a senator — nothing — has brought dishonor on this institution.”
for sake of argument, let’s take al at his word that any dishonorable behavior was only committed prior to becoming senator, while being senator he has worked and conducted himself solely within its and society’s rules.
yet, he is forced to resign without even a trial assessing the prior “crimes” and the people of mn have no opportunity or are allowed to evaluate in an election his character and work with complete knowledge of past and present behavior.
is this the new norm that no matter the honorable work and clean living during service, a duly elected official can be forced to resign without first being allowed an investigation, hearing on the investigation, presentation of defense and determination of guilt?
as newt [really hate to acknowledge he might be right about anything and quote him] said it was a “lynch mob” re franken’s deal, no due process.
Well, recuse me!
The judge in the case of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has recused himself, CBS News’ Paula Reid reports.
Flynn’s case, in which he has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, has been reassigned to Judge Emmet G. Sullivan after Judge Rudolph Contreras recused himself.
The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia has confirmed the recusal, but has not provided an explanation for it.
Mr. DD
If Kay Summersby was telling the truth, we would have lost the war. It never pays to apply many of the things accepted in the past to the standards of the present.
Self-guilt over an Hispanic name?
Government shutdown rescheduled for Christmas. I turn 64 next week and that means I will be eligible for Medicare in 11 months. I have gotten a new silver plan this year from the marketplace…forget about the healthcare, it keeps me from losing my house. At my tender age, any false move, cheap toilet paper or errant sneeze can cause damage as I make my way through the slippery slope of aging. I need health insurance as much as young people!
Flatus, Contreras is of Cuban descent and Sullivan handled the FOIA on Clinton’s emails. Who knows? Still no clue as to why Dana Boente retired.
Stinky zinke continues his expensive reign and abuse against Mother Nature. Her skins on display at interior. The smell at the Department of Interior isn’t from Nature.
This isn’t the first time Zinke has come under scrutiny for his behavior in office. Last month, HuffPost reported that the Interior Department’s office worked throughout March to decorate the secretary’s suite to his liking, which included mounting the heads of a bison and elk on the wall and moving a large taxidermy grizzly bear around.
Staff also had to accommodate the arrival of a $1,749 leather couch from California (including “white-glove delivery”) and a stuffed bobcat from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s collection.
I hope Franken goes back to comedy, he was really good at it. I missed that Al.
I will miss the Al that brought down sessions.
By the way, does the “in coming weeks” timing of his resignation allow wiggle room to withdraw it if something changes?
And in all fairness to the fine employees at the Dept. of Interior, our local White Sands rangers use road kill to make stuffed coyotes, etc. for displays, lectures.
I know many are mad at Gillibrand this morning. But I’ve decided to keep an open mind about her. As many have pointed out, the gop doesn’t play fair and will use any means to win. That means the Dems need a strong, mean, and will do whatever it takes to win type of candidate for 2020. If she did remove Franken to get him out of the way… I’d say, IMO, she has the balls to get the job done.
A point no one has made yet about the Franken resignation, it put another senate seat in play in 2018, in a state that Clinton barely beat Trump. Right now they are talking about putting in a placeholder with a full blown democratic brawl up to just a few weeks before the general election.
Oh and if you think we have recovered from Lincoln’s assassination you haven’t been paying attention to the Alabama senate race.
Jack
Craig, would be great if Al comes out next week with a “I’m using a man’s prerogative and I’m changing my mind. I’m staying in the Senate. Bring it, baby!”
That would get me laffing.
Twitter: @HaggardHawks is worth a follow. Words. Here’s one for today:
WHIPMEGMORUM is an old Scots dialect word for a noisy quarrel about politics.
Speculation that may be the derivation of a “Whip.”
More:
‘To set beside the cushion’ is a 16th century expression meaning ‘to depose’, or ‘to deprive someone of power or office’.
I found the Time cover with the MeToo missed it by a mile. Infuriatingly so. Get celebrities off the cover and out of the conversation. This has to focus on “ordinary” people’s lives or else it’s a skewed version of celebrity worship and trickle-down morality. If we’re simply uninterested in a topic without the gloss of celebrity and the powerful, that’s another problem.
I agree that Gillibrand has been championing the abuse against women since she took office…especially her work with the military. From memory, her book about her Senate experience revealed much about the handsy boy’s club in the Senate. I get this is HER issue and I am glad that it has come to light with the third wave of feminism.
Not all sexual misconduct is a sexual crime, however. I feel it muddies the water by combining degrees of abuse with actual crime. Franken’s resigning will not affect the common citizen who has to have sex to keep a job, find shelter, etc. It may help the citizens who work in government and the military. But to other citizens? The message to most at the bottom? Politicians like priests and coaches and doctors and actors can pretty much take what they want and busy themselves with their crimes while those in government are ignoring the crimes against humanity. It is first crimes against children, boys and girls that need to be highlighted. Then we can get the consenting adults to behave after exposing their crimes against each other.
BW, couldn’t agree more that “Not all sexual misconduct is a sexual crime” but all sexual misconduct should be a firing offense.
Damn you, Franken! Jewish Congressional Democrats not invited to the White House’s annual Hanukkah party on Thursday night. Politics, religion and weather….no longer subjects we can agree on.
‘but all sexual misconduct should be a firing offense.’
How do children fire their teacher, their landlord,their neighbor, their minister, their judge? If it is not a crime, how is handled?
I just spent an hour or so perusing our government’s Manual for Courts Manual. It defines the laws by which our military members are governed. It provides punishments ranging from a reprimand to death, It also gives an accused the absolute right to reject summary judgement by a superior officer in favor of a special or general courts martial in which due process rights are guaranteed.
The Manual, including attachments, is large–nearly 1000-pages. The section on sexual behavior is very specific as to acts, circumstances, victims, etc. So much of it is pertinent to what we have been discussing. Due process is there.
Back to the altar…I wish I had stayed in Australia.
BW, that’s why we have civil court, to adjudicate non-criminal offenses.
Poor dumb Trump. He has already held the Chanukah party but the First Night of Chanukah isn’t until the 12th (24 Kislev). The holiday runs through the 20th (2 Tevet).
I just heard a maroon say the Democrats are doing this for political purposes –so what?
I’d rather be in a party that did the right thing for political purposes then the wrong thing
Poor Al — apparently set up in two cases but an admitted gropper Personally I am not a fan of having my butt fondled by random strangers or even someone I know without permission. Maybe he should switch parties –everyone seems ok with Poppy Bush.
Let’s start talkng about that fat pig from Texas- the story isn’t if the Dems are stupid – no wonder PG can easily convince people that the news is fake..it is certainly stupid
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/07/house-ethics-panel-probe-blake-farenthold-sexual-harassment-allegations/933112001/
I think the question is when will women be treated like human beings. Catherine McKinnon said it better “Are women human yet?
A friend of mine said she thought men didn’t have a clue so here’s a couple of clues
You have no right to assume someone wants you to compliment them in a sexual way anywhere but especially not at work. It’s not appropriate and it is unwelcomed. And clearly any uninvited touching or kissing is also wrong. And I can’t believe I have to say this but it is not ok to take off your clothes and surprise your work colleague.
And to make someone have sex with you to keep their job – you are a disgusting pervert
BW – I agree that someone saw Franken as a road block for 2020.
Craig – Maybe Franken does go back to comedy. What if he stays in politics? What went after him still has an odd smell. I am thinking he will take a couple months off and return to a political world. You do not stay in politics unless you love it. The pain reward ration is strange. You do not mind the pain if you are a winner. Franken was just starting to show he understood politics and being a winner was settling in. I think there was some plan put in place (probably by the greedy old perverts) to take him down.
You want to know what a strong woman in politics looks like from long ago… read any book on Cleopatra. My favorite is The Memoirs of Cleopatra by Margaret George. She knew what it took to succeed back then in a man’s world… including having many family relations killed so they were out of her way.
And as Sturge likes to reminds us… we’re really not that far removed from ancient Rome…
A couple of great books on the Queen of the Nile:
KLEOPATRA and PHARAOH
by Karen Essex
a good exploration of just how politically astute she was in that world. She lost, of course, but then getting there was half the fun……
Palestinians clashing with Israeli troops. Hundreds injured. Good job SF.
Black turnout in Alabama can turn this, get on it.. “Roy Moore once praised slavery” https://t.co/g5MIZF4Jxf
And as someone else reminded, we’re also not that far removed from Antietam, and Fredricksburg……….( and Fredricksburg was not at all far removed from Crécy, and Agincourt, as it were….)
Alabama media (the one matters) all over this:
Roy Moore’s record on civil rights.. https://t.co/QW8JQWSChV
28% black turnout would put him down
Alice Feiring
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/democrats-sacrifice-al-franken-cynical-ridiculous-article-1.3685757?utm_content=buffercd7ba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Alice Feiring:
The #metoo movement has been co-opted for Franken’s political sabotage and the Democrats stepped right into it, offering the senator up as its lamb.
The greater good? Supposedly to wield moral superiority. To go high when they go low. Pearls before swine.
But we have plenty of proof, from the new tax bill to net neutrality to backing Moore, that moral superiority has no currency with today’s Republicans.
But then, what’s done is done, as was said a lot after the primaries……and the election……and the appointment of Gorsuch…..
and
Etc.
Turnout is going to eat Moore’s lunch.
Poobah & sturge, nothing would make my sister happier.
How can a state that depends on black athletes for its self-worth elect this man? Moore’s record on civil rights.. https://t.co/QW8JQWSChV
Any Alabaman who says Moore will win is lying thru his tooth.
Doug Jones laid his life on the line for the conviction of those who by cowardly act deliberately murdered 4 little girls while they were in CHURCH.
people in Alabama know this.
Doug Jones should run clips of the news coverage the day of that church bombing in Birmingham.
Birmingham, 1963
So now the repugs are trying to look responsible on the harassment front – ditching Trent Franks and investigating Farenthold. OK, but you can’t support PG and Moore and claim to be responsive to the issues In poker terms it would go something like this –
Dems – I’ll bet a Conyers and a Franken;
Repugs – I’ll see you and raise you a Franks and a Farenthold;
Dems – I’ll see you and raise you a Trump and Moore and Call.
Repugs – But, but…but…
The GOP really has to give up the elephant. Elephants have better family values than the Grabby Old Perverts and the Trump boys think shooting them is “sport”.
Science says get a cat.
When I spent 5 days in the hospital earlier this year after a chemo setback, the intake nurse told me that I was eligible for a visit from therapy dogs. I asked if they had therapy cats. They did, so the team came by every day and I met several lovely little fur faces who made me feel better.
Pets have power.
What is so hard for men to understand. The woman’s body belongs to the woman. You don’t touch it, comment on it, expect to use it, or have any rights to it in any way unless you have her permission and cooperation. If she is under the age of consent, even permission of any kind is revoked.
See how easy that is.
Punishments for violation of the above may be variable depending on level of offense and may range from a face slap to the death penalty.
Travis
I could loan you Saki. She sings in your ear and gives you kisses until you fall asleep and once she has done her assigned job, curls up to keep your feet warm.
Poobah, 73% of Alabama is white, and I assure you that of those who voted a majority of whom voted for Moore in his previous campaigns, do not feel that their self worth is based in black athletes at “Bama” and Auburn. They love their football, cheer for their favorite school, but don’t identify with those athletes beyond their on-field accomplishments. They hold in highest regard Nick Saban and Gus Malzhan. I’m sure that whenever a black athlete is arrested for DUI or whatever, those good ole boys nod knowingly. While Alabama likes to think it’s come a long way, in fact, it’s still way behind the rest of the country outside the deep south when it comes to racial politics. Hell most of them probably agree with Moore. The only statewide position, including every one of the 8 justices of the AL supreme court, not filled by a republican is Lieutenant Governor – it’s vacant. And each house of the legislature is roughly 2-1 repug. Fact is, Moore is just one of them.
Moore is one of them, but he just might be a bridge too far……there’s the rub…….and there’s what gives Jones an edge.
“If you see me with a gun, it’s when I’m going in or out of a deer stand……not prancing around on stage in a cowboy suit.”
—-Doug Jones.
pogo, that poker ploy sounds a bit like the cool suggestion in a letter to the editor about franken resigning: if (god forbid) roy moore is elected on the 12th, al should say he’s rethought things and announce “I, sen. franken will gladly resign on the day sen. moore resigns”
at least his sacrifice will then make more sense and in fact help purify and cleanse the senate of the men with nasty pasts.
More
Brian Krassenstein is in parody mode on Twitter. Feel free to sing along & add verses.
It’s beginning to look a lot like Treason,
Everywhere you go,
Take a look at C N N,
It’s another leak again,
What’s Mueller’s investigation goin’ to show?
It’s beginning to look a lot like Treason.
and a one and a two….
pogo, I’m just saying I’ve always thought it rich that Alabamans glorify their college football, which would be a joke without black athletes, and yet they elect racists.
Sturge, that Jones quote is priceless.
Ok science buffs, interesting new discovery of a black hole that’s 13 Billion years old – and 800 million times more massive than the sun. Hmm, how’s that square with that biblical 6,000 year old theory?
Poobah, it’s been like that all my life – a kinda split brain syndrome I guess. Racial politics is fine and all, but don’t fuck with Alabama’s football.
pogo, i just don’t understand why these black athletes don’t call bull shit on the state’s racism
That Jones line cut deep in Alabama……I can hear it now:
“I heard DAT……”
Politics on campus kinda faded in the 80s. It was barely talked about by the time I left there. I suspect it’s not as hot a topic today as you might think. Besides, athletes want to get to the NBA and NFL.
Jones’s spam has made me crazy. I’m going to file a new rule: When making a contribution, activate a spam filter.
During the time I spent in Montgomery back in ’79, the people, all the people, were gracious and kind. I and the group of senior NCOs I was schooling with explored trying to get a sense of the social/racial dynamics. My impression–my cohort, ten people, enjoyed every stop we made in the City, and we sought out diverse venues.
So the challenger to Joe Manchin here is Don Blankenship. Go look him up. He’s running on a campaign claiming Manchin doesn’t care about holding businesses responsible for their screwups. Like I said, look him up. Hint, Upper Big Branch Mine.
in the “how ironic” category, words from a Ronald Reagan appointee who’s just come under sexual harassment accusations from former clerks of his according to wapo:
Kozinski himself wrote about sexual harassment in 1992, commenting on how legal remedies could come with unforeseen consequences.
He wrote that men “must be aware of the boundaries of propriety and learn to stay well within them,” while women “must be vigilant of their rights, but must also have some forgiveness for human foibles: misplaced humor, misunderstanding, or just plain stupidity.”
He acknowledged, though, that the problem of harassment was a real one.
“But who knew, who understood, that it was quite so pervasive,” Kozinski wrote. “Apparently most women did, while most men did not. It was the best-kept secret of modern times.”