And Now It Begins

Tonight’s debate begins a new and final phase to the most bizarre presidential election I’ve ever seen. Will it be a reboot, or more of the same? Here’s our debate party thread.

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Author: craigcrawford

Trail Mix Host. Lapsed journalist, author & retired pundit happily promoting nothing but the truth for Social Security checks.

238 thoughts on “And Now It Begins”

  2. train wreck begins…keep an eye on trump’s hands.  Craig, as a woman, if Clinton had backed out of the debate?  Political suicide.

  4. Speaking of hands, MSNBC just flashed a picture of Hillary debate coach Philippe Reines waving that Donald finger to thumb gesture & face pursed smirk that I find so nauseating.  

     

  10. Sorry Craig, I agree Wino 100%, I agree the media would have gone crazy, but can you imagine what Trump and his pundits would be saying “If she can’t handle a debate with Donald Trump, she cannot handle the presidency!” They would keep this mantra up until election day.

  13. Chris Matthews just uttered one of my nails on blackboard assumptions.  i.e. it counts against HIllary because more than 2/3 of the country thinks we are going in the wrong direction.

    Why do media types always assume that those people are upset with Liberals.  Couldn’t at least half of them be pissed at GOP doing nothing to help regular people?

     

  14. mamaknows, disagree, public wouldn’t care if she ducked. they’d rather watch CIS or whatever. Nothing but risk for her, but it’s a done deal so whatever.

  16. I agree, Hillary had to do it. As a women she would have been smeared with to weak (sick) to face her opponent.

    Craig,

    I do think your probably correct though, don’t see how it can be considered a win for her if he just keeps his cool and doesn’t implode.. Now on issues and knowledge she wins but do the media or his supporters care who knows the facts?

  17. trump wants to undo the entire Obama years and Clinton is more of the same, tonight she has to convince fringe deplorables that her America wants them, too.  She has the sane humans who have families and concerns about the stability of the future, her loyal supporters…she has to be prez for all.  She is correct about the deplorables, however, but she killed her lead by talking about them.  I still think a big donor asked her to say it.

  19. Because MSNBC went to him briefly for a comment.  I can’t watch CNN tonight because they have that horrendous “fight club” music as if this were a sporting event.  Since it’s no commercial interruption, I don’t need to switch to C-SPAN.  I am keeping Twitter open for running remarks.

     

  21. Jill Stein escorted off debate premises http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/297876-green-party-nominee-escorted-off-debate-premises#.V-nA5g9DK-Q.twitter

  27. Except for invited guests, they are all students of the college.  It is a learning experience not a circus.  Oxford has been doing debates for centuries.  We can manage a few nights without being dumbed down into oblivion.

     

  32. Unfortunately, the low info GOP voters dumped this monstrosity on the country and we are stuck with rules as usual.  She is not allowed to break rules and no one insists that he follow them.  Decidedly double standard.

     

  65. Taking the bait, amateur hour, 😛

     

    I better not back-read this thread later and see a certain someone drawing false equilvalencies, o_O

  78. Yes Trump did call climate change a hoax http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/03/hillary-clinton/yes-donald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/

  82. Jesus Hillary,  did love the own reality comment.but it’s official  – Lester’s a pussy. (Apologies to anyone who this offeds)

  85. Trump is a full of shit and she is calling him on it

    I think this a bad night for Trump so far

  88. Hopefully the rest of America isn’t is as enamoured by bullies as you, Craig.  A temperament not fit for office.

  95. All the sniffing indicates something

    but I could not disagree with Craig more ..he sounds crazier than usual

  98. “Hillary has lost the first 20 minutes of this debate, that usually sets the result.”

     

    -you’re out-of-touch.

    Dude is a child.

  99. I don’t think she lost the first 20 Craig….  He’s a bully and he showed it. He’s a blanket blamer….

  104. 9:24 p.m. Now he’s talking and shouting over the moderator. He’s out of control. “She’s been fighting ISIS her entire adult life”? Again, what is he talking about?

    Andrew Sullivan

    9:27 p.m. I can’t quite understand what he’s talking about. And what strikes me is his insistence on shouting over her. He will not let her answer – but she has not told him to stop interrupting.

    9:30 p.m. He’s now full bonkers – attacking the Federal Reserve. And then repeating the absurd lie that he cannot release his tax returns because of an audit. He’s just doubling down on the bullshit. If this performance works, it’s the end of any kind of rational discourse in a liberal democrac

  109. you do not like her Craig…I really do not see it, but what matters is that you do.

    Onward…don’t eat too much.

  123. from around Facebook

    Most of the focus from the media has been on whether The Giant Orange Carny could maintain his composure during tonight’s debate. So far he appears to be in typical rude and physically overactive form. The snorting is a nice touch.

  125. Jamie, et al, try to watch this as a non-partisan, he’s coming across as the renegade, she’s status quo — he’s doing a better job of attracting change voters

  126. The race question should have been HRC’s wheelhouse, but she is not selling the answer. This was a fastball down the middle of the plate she should have knocked it out of the park. Damn!

  127. Jace

    Agreed, Holt is a dud.. So far the debate has surprised me. A good showcase for Hrc. Trump has shown himself an undiplomatic bully. Good night so far

  129. Don’t be “condescending”, Craig. 😛

     

    Honestly, I can’t take you seriously if you are comfortable asserting Trump is winning.  Sorry 🙁

     

    Take care, brush your hair.

  131. I guess the voters just like assholes. Because that’s what Trump is doing. He is showing that he’s nothing more than a sold not a single fucking figure at his finger to back up his bullshit.” A beautiful thing. ” WTF does THAT mean?He’s  just blabbering.

  133. again post debate fact checking will be the most important

    the Clinton spin room better be whirling dervishes and the media better do its damn job

  135. Sorry, Blink, i don’t watch these things based on what i want to see, instead what I actually see. And what I see is that Trump got his message out in the first hour, and she was on defense.

  139. Craig

    I have faith the change voters aren’t idiots.  Quite frankly, I don’t think you are watching non partisan simply because the general agreement everywhere (other than right wing commentators) is that she is totally in control and he looks like a fool.

     

  144. I can see why Hillary supporters want to see the best in her tonight, but she blew it in my view, letting him take over in the mistaken view that giving him rope he’d hang himself. Maybe that’s correct. I don’t think so.

  145. I think I’ve developed great relationships with the African American community.   Right. I think you can look around and see it.  Right.  I’m guessing you can’t see it in the African American community.

  147. he is  Mr Bluster

    NATE SILVER 10:02 PM
    We’re a bit more than halfway through, and I’m deliberately trying not to do much theater criticism, but if you buy the notion that candidates’ body language betrays their confidence level, it’s remarkable how much stiller Clinton is than Trump, whereas Trump is flailing around a lot more. To me — and evidently to betting markets — that reads as confidence amid a strong performance, but we’ll see what the voters think.

  148. “Sorry, Blink, i don’t watch these things based on what i want to see”

    Apparently, you do.

     

    Let’s leave it there.

  151. Oh my, Trump is really stinking up the stage

    This my fellow Craig list fellows is simply embarrassing

    I throw in the towel

  152. Lessee, the issue is cyber security. .  His answer is admirals, generals and ICE (or was that ISIS?). Excuse me… i call bullshit.

  154. More from the 538 staff blog

    FARAI CHIDEYA 10:10 PM

    Trump said, during a longer exchange over the birther claims that President Obama was not born in the United States, “When you talk about healing, I think that I’ve developed very very good relationships, over the last little while, with the African-American community.”
    Actually, Trump’s favorability ratings among African-Americans compare — unfavorably — with bedbugs. He told Bryant Gumbel in 1989, “A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market. … If I was starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I really do believe they have the actual advantage today,” and he’s made many other racially questionable remarks between that year and today. This election season, while Trump has focused his attacks on Muslims and Mexicans, black Americans don’t seem to be buying what he’s selling.

  157. He just lied about ICE endorsement.  Government agents can’t endorse.  He was endorsed by a union that represents a small percentage of ICE employees.  Vast difference.

    The Fact Checkers are going to go crazy tomorrow.  He has been one lie, exaggeration, and distortion after another.

     

  162. Hey, dumb-ass, Obama and Clinton did not go into Iraq. That was some asshole idiot that we refer to as Shrub.

  163. I am gagging over some of her statements but he is such a failure that he should be kicking her &%÷#\

    Gary Johnson?

  166. “he’s doing a better job of attracting change voters”

    Good, except for right wing Republicans this isn’t a change election. Over and over the incumbents are winning. The Senate probably won’t change hands because of it.

    Jack.

     

  167. Thank you Ping

    I know that was difficult for you.  I just wished some GOP friends of mine better luck with a better candidate in 2020 no matter how this election goes.

  168. Just take the oil, even if it doesn’t belong to us. Talk about winning friends and influencing enemies.  Jesus Donald, that’s a winning formula! For fuck sake!!!

  170. From Chef Sheila’s Facebook page:

    I’m officially done with the “she’s so flawed but she is the lesser of two evils” rhetoric. Cause, you know,
    I’m flawed. And you are flawed.
    And Bernie Sanders is flawed
    and Barack Obama is flawed 
    and even Michelle Obama is flawed.

    But the difference between all of them and me–and probably you, is that they have all given their flawed lives to public service. And now, they are all working together in their inevitably flawed ways, to save all of us, and the whole world from a sociopathic narcissist.
    And every day, Hillary puts a hopefully unflawed bullet proof vest on her flawed and aging and sometimes unsmiling self and stands up in front of people who have been incited by her opponent to shoot her, and she says calm and rational and intelligent (and sometimes flawed) things about how to make a difference. In my book that makes her a rock star.
    And in the words of another flawed and resilient rock star. There is a crack in everything. That’s where the light gets in.
    Pam Houston
    United States Citizen

  174. Hillary gained nothing tonight, perhaps lost ground. Why the hell they gave him this platform is beyond me. Especially since she stood there silently while he repeatedly insulted her.

  176. Oh I’m so glad Hillary debated Trump..She stood tall to a bully..Trump is bat shit crazy.. It won’t matter to Trumps supporters but hopefulliy it will to enough women and young people. .

  177. I am going to spam this forum with literal nonsense for an hour and a half.  By Craig’s logic, I will be the most successful participant in this thread.  Here I go, start your watches…

     

    Blah blah blah, “I say nothing”.  “Semi-exact”.  “I didn’t pay federal taxes because I’m smart”.  “It’s all words”.  Blah blah blah…

  178. “Why the hell they gave him this platform is beyond me.”

     

    Um, because the Republicans nominated him for POTUS?

  179. This is aimed at the 15% in the middle who will go to one of the 4 candidates, not at me, not at you.  The $64,000 question is what do they see?

  182. Hillary could have defeated Isis by never letting it get going in the first place.  I bet she is kicking herself now that Trump has pointed that out.

  186. Thank God Hillary is not drinking water like the Donald, otherwise the media would be saying she is still not feeling good. So glad she is so strong tonight, physically and so presidential.

    Tony, got to get the picture of Hillary that you have in your front window, thanks for sharing.

  188. “This is aimed at the 15% in the middle …”

    Pogo,

    Believe you are correct. Judging from the people I know, work with, work for & take care of, their decision may not be made until November 8th.

  189. DAVID FIRESTONE 10:37 PM

    It’s kind of surprising that Clinton isn’t reacting with a little disbelief to these long rambling not-quite-coherent answers from Trump, which seem designed to persuade listeners that he has something to say about a subject without quite saying anything. As in, “Donald, I have no idea what you just said.”

  190. Craig,  you’ve got more history with this than i.  I know what I see.  An assholian and a serious candidate.   He would  be a disaster  as president.   As I said, god help us.

  191. Graham Cracker I totally agree …. so many times I was wanting her to say “I have no idea what he is saying …. some of his sentences just don’t make sense!_

     

  195. Tweety called it a 5-0 shutout for Hillary.  Steve Schmidt said Hillary looked terrific, trump looked like he was between incoherent and babbling.

  198. He got tired in the second half– couldn’t get in a line during the debate sniff sniff

  199. Now is the time to turn off the TV, radio, etc where the spin-meisters & pundits roost. Trust yourself & your intelligence. You’re smarter, better & prettier than they are anyway.

  203. Amusing to see those here citing media personalities you usually trash suddenly say what you want to hear. Oh and what happened to the prevailing view here that the media is pro Trump.

  209. I’m trying to figure out what demographic(s) will be more favorable to Trump after tonight than they were before? Women, African American, Hispanic, oh perhaps Muslims, or college educated? Just can’t find one. Hillary might have done better, but there was no game changer for the Donald tonight.

    He fired his biggest guns to little effect.

  210. Going out on a limb here …. but the pro-Republican Nominee folks will say he won & the pro-Democratic Nominee folks will say she won. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    (And psst… the sun will rise in the east, the Pope is Catholic & Francisco Franco is still dead.)

  212. I’m reporting what I’m hearing.  Those are the MSNBC token Repugs.  Christie showed as the FATuos ASS he is. Even Chuckie gave it to Hillary.

    Craig,  you and Mike Murphy agree about the 1st 20 minutes.  So far no one has given trump the edge.

  213. I’m sure Trump was a hit at the Frat house, I’m jut not sure how many frat boys vote.

    Trump looked bizarre and didn’t look like a person who could lead this country.

    I think Trump did a good job of solidifying the women’s vote for HRC.

    Best post game comment was by Brokaw about Trumps walk through  the spin room. Paraphrase

    That was not a Trump who was confident he had won”

    And he was right Trump didn’t look cocky as he does when he is on top

    Jack

  214. The fact checkers are already hard at work, and Donald isn’t faring all that well. Guessing the next debate will be all about the ‘tall tales’ he told in this debate.

  216. Still think the most important question asked of any candidate would be: Name your Mayor, State Senator & Congressional Representative.

  217. Quote from an 18 year old friend: “Trump sounded like me in political science class trying to bullshit my way through an essay.”

     

     

  219. HRC did what she needed to do.

    Stick to her talking points aimed at her target audience

    Don’t let Trump rattle her into something stupid

    Don’t get down in the mud with him

    She did all of that.

    Jack

     

  220. Carville sez she was solid, knowledgeable, well spoken. What came across was how awful he was.

    Craig, we’ll see what the polls do. Maybe you’re right.  I don’t think so, but I think I’ve been wrong before. .. once … maybe.

  221. Sadly for Donald the debate lasted 90 minutes not 20. Oh those pesky tax returns, and bankruptcies. Sorry Donald. Screwing someone just because it’s legal, doesn’t make them any less screwed, nor do they find it any less humiliating.

  222. Funny as always how pundits and fact checkers choose the debate losers.

    That is for certain in the past, but I was hearing large numbers being tossed around about viewers. So it may be different this time.

     

    Jack

  223. Face it, Trump learned what he knows about debating during the republican debates. Not a very high bar in retrospect.

    Hillary has slugged it out over the years with some rather capable opponents. Experience pays off.

  224. Feeling disappointed: if the Debates were going to draw Super Bowl ratings, then why no razzle-dazzle halftime show? No wardrobe malfunctions?

  226. even republicans thought it was bad

    and not just pundits think he sucked ..lots of people in general thought he was bad

  227. I guess that makes up for the CNN poll that shows Trump winning
    based on a sample of voters that favors trump and no one thinks is accurate

  228. Trump did his best to try and rattle Clinton and except for one brief moment, he failed. But he really got frustrated about it at the last.

    Jack

  235. Trump had his twitter army calling and posting into online polls but even Truly Julieannie admitted trump lost and suggested that Trump skip the next debates…..

  237. “Funny. What happened to the griping about the supposedly anti-Clinton media?”

    Craig

    This has nothing to do with the media’s overall performance which has been poor in regards to Hillary and most everything else.

    You used to know that before your tango with Mr. Webb.

    Hell, if you hadn’t have known that all those years ago and been so different than the MSM i sure as hell wouldn’t have been at your blog back then.

    I stick around now because i care about you and all the people here. I’m not here because of your coverage of the 2016 election because in my mind you really haven’t covered it. If your retired from journalism and this is all just about personal opinion (yours as well as ours), ok… Your def entitled to that. Although, I’m simply very concerned how someone with your unique journalistic abilities could change so much? If i’ve overstepped my apologies..

     

     

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