Traveling in Uncharted Territory

The Supreme Court of Colorado:

… President Trump is disqualified from holding the office of President under Section Three; because he is disqualified, it would be a wrongful act under the Election Code for the Secretary to list him as a candidate on the presidential primary ballot.
¶6 We do not reach these conclusions lightly. We are mindful of the magnitude and weight of the questions now before us. We are likewise mindful of our solemn duty to apply the law, without fear or favor, and without being swayed by public reaction to the decisions that the law mandates we reach.
¶7 We are also cognizant that we travel in uncharted territory, and that this case presents several issues of first impression….

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Pogo
1 year ago

So Stumbleville’s hold on promotions was ended yesterday. Stupid ass. 

craigcrawford
1 year ago

I started reading the 212-page Colorado opinion last night and finished this morning. It might not make a difference if pro-Trump justices are outcome determinative, but it’s bullet proof, or “unassailable” as conservative former federal Judge Michael Luttig said last night.

Read opinion (pdf) here

For starters, on this notion that the 14th Amendment provision does not apply to presidents, the court easily brushes that off:

“It seems most likely that the Presidency is not specifically included because it is so evidently an ‘office,’” the court said, adding that  “a conclusion that the Presidency is something other than an office ‘under’ the United States is fundamentally at odds with the idea that all government officials, including the President, serve ‘we the people.’”

craigcrawford
1 year ago

Colorado court agreed with the trial judge’s conclusion after an evidentiary hearing that Trump engaged in an insurrection:

“Moreover, the record amply demonstrates that President Trump fully intended to—and did—aid or further the insurrectionists’ common unlawful purpose of preventing the peaceful transfer of power in this country. He exhorted them to fight to prevent the certification of the 2020 presidential election. He personally took action to try to stop the certification. And for many hours, he and his supporters succeeded in halting that process. For these reasons, we conclude that the record fully supports the district court’s finding that President Trump engaged in insurrection within the meaning of Section Three (of 14th Amendment)”

Note: Even the three dissenters agreed with that finding of fact.

Blue Bronc
1 year ago

Will sfb legal beagles jump on the rescue log and go to the court formerly known as supreme?  Or will they show their incompetent selves and fail to meet the January 4, 2024 deadline?  I tend to go with the latter as they have performed it more often.

craigcrawford
1 year ago

George Conway making sense on Morning Joe:

   “What happened here was there was a five-day trial where Donald Trump and his lawyers got to participate, and the judge made extensive findings. A judge who actually ruled for him on the legal grounds found this by not just a preponderance of the evidence, which is your lower basic civil court standard, but by clear and convincing evidence, which means it’s way more than more likely than not. It’s very strong evidence.

And you don’t see the dissent challenging those findings at all. And in fact, there’s no basis to challenge the findings. When you go to the majority opinion and you read the 30 or 40 pages on what happened on January 6th and what Donald Trump did before and during January 6th, there’s no dispute. We saw it on television. We know what happened. He fomented. He engaged in an insurrection. He wanted this to happen. And not only that, there’s another provision in Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment that talks about giving aid and comfort to enemies of the Constitution. Well, he did that. He was an enemy of the Constitution!”

blueINdallas
1 year ago

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/20/politics/trump-scott-perry-cell-phone-records/index.html

“The special counsel’s office can access more than 1,600 communications found on Rep. Scott Perry’s cell phone, including some about his interest in assisting former President Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election, according to a new court decision on Tuesday.”

“Specifically, the judge’s decision will hand over to prosecutors several of the Pennsylvania Republican’s messages, including ones that capture his attempts “to work with or influence members of the Executive Branch” as Trump sought to dig up support for disinformation about election fraud.”

“Yet, Chief Judge James Boasberg of the DC District Court is allowing Perry to still protect about 400 records relating directly to votes he would take, including certifying the 2020 election result under the Electoral Count Act.”

craigcrawford
1 year ago

Two factors could sway SCOTUS conservatives to uphold or not take the case: Their preference for states rights and originalism.

Trump team is at odds on both, asking feds to overrule a state, and seeking to imply interpretations that are not in the actual words of the provision. 

craigcrawford
1 year ago

Pat, they apply it to amendments. If they strictly interpret this provision the way they do the second Amendment there is no question the Colorado Supreme Court is correct.

craigcrawford
1 year ago

And for all this hoo-ha about ‘there must be a jury trial” — sorry folks there is no 7th Amendment right to a jury trial in election litigation.

craigcrawford
1 year ago

More from Colorado finding he engaged in insurrection:

Trump did not merely incite the insurrection. Even when the siege on the Capitol was fully underway, he continued to support it by repeatedly demanding that Vice President Pence refuse to perform his constitutional duty and by calling senators to persuade them to stop the counting of electoral votes. These actions constituted overt, voluntary, and direct participation in the insurrection.

craigcrawford
1 year ago

I am wondering this morning if some of the conservatives on the Supreme Court might actually want to throw a lifeline to sensible Republicans like Haley by shutting down pumpkin head

Pogo
1 year ago

patd, echoing Poobah re: originalism.  I’m an originalism skeptic – theoretically they apply the use of the words in the document as they were used when the document and the amendments were written (which is what they tell themselves so they can sleep at night) – except when they don’t.  The Dobbs decision reflects the contortions of historical context that the lying SOSs will perform to get to the conclusion they want.  Their 2nd amendment decisions similarly ignore not only the historical context of the words they choose to read, but also ignore the words that if read would undermine those decisions (e.g. “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, …”). 

Bink
1 year ago

do they confine it… or do they acknowledge later amendments and events? 

they contort it to fit whatever ruling they want, Alito was doing originalist gymnastics when he overturned Roe

Oh, sorry, Pogo, i see you agree right down to the verbiage. must be objectively the right description

RebelliousRenee
1 year ago

today’s meme…
 
 

blueINdallas
1 year ago

https://businessofcannabis.com/florida-files-bill-to-remove-280e-tax-burdens-as-desantis-ties-to-medical-cannabis-industry-brought-into-question/

“Senator Ana Maria Rodriguez has proposed an amendment to Florida’s tax code which would allow cannabis operators to claim tax deductions, a practice currently banned federally by the controversial 280E IRS code.”

“The news comes as CNN reports that Florida’s Governor and 2024 Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis was ‘courted by key figures in the medical cannabis industry’.

Pogo
1 year ago

Bink, apparently so.  One of my favorite legalisms is a close variant – legal legerdemain. Look ,nothing up my sleeve…

Sturgeone
1 year ago

This is a cracking good yarn every time.  Old Berman tells how he saw the beginnings of the actual Hillary’s “…vast right wing conspiracy…”Shown to him by Laura Ingraham, a kind of pivot man for the operation.  C1998
It comes in 3rd segment.   
Also a good take on Colorado.

Bink
1 year ago

i ain’t that bright and my intelligence is still insulted by that Alito opinion

whskyjack
1 year ago

 

whskyjack
1 year ago

The whole Keb’ Mo’ Christmas album

blueINdallas
1 year ago

https://www.salon.com/2023/12/20/orders-unsealing-of-documents-naming-over-150-jeffrey-epstein-associates/

“Federal judge orders unsealing of documents naming over 150 Jeffrey Epstein associates- A federal judge ordered the documents to be unsealed on January 1”

“Anyone who did not successfully work to have their name excluded from the civil case could see their name released to the public upon the documents’ unsealing, including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.”

“…because some of the included individuals have done media interviews their names should not remain private. Some names belong to individuals who were simply included in depositions, email or legal documents, while others belong to people who have already been publicly associated with Epstein.”

Is this going to be a nothing burger?

Pogo
1 year ago

BiD – ask that last question on Jan. 2.

Pogo
1 year ago

This is a very odd sentence in that Salon article:

Anyone who did not successfully work to have their name excluded from the civil case could see their name released to the public upon the documents’ unsealing, including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.

I’m really not sure what to make of that – but then again I know nothing of the lawsuit at issue.

blueINdallas
1 year ago

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/20/texas-plane-immigrants-chicago-greg-abbott-busing/

“Texas flies over 120 immigrants to Chicago in expansion of Gov. Greg Abbott’s busing plan”
 
“In total, Texas has bused over 80,000 people from border cities to those six cities, according to the governor’s office. Tuesday’s flight was the first time Texas has used planes to transport immigrant passengers.”
 
“…in Chicago, city officials there have cracked down on some of the bus drivers coming from Texas, saying they’ve ignored municipal rules on where to drop off the passengers. Last week, the city impounded a bus because the driver was not licensed to transport passengers.”
 
 
 

blueINdallas
1 year ago

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/20/us/migrant-surge-travel-agencies-smugglers/index.html

“The migrant surge overwhelming US-Mexico border authorities is being driven by pseudo-legitimate travel agencies and organized transportation networks that are advertising travel to the US southern border and ultimately connecting migrants to smugglers, according to a US Customs and Border Protection official.”

“Pseudo-legitimate travel agencies emerging in cities like Dakar, the capital of Senegal, advertise visa-free travel to Europe and then to the US, the official said. The so-called travel packages include a connection to smuggling organizations that facilitate movement to the US southern border with the help of large bus lines in Mexico’s northern state of Sonora that operate dozens of buses a day to random spots on the border, according to the official.”

Nobody runs away from a happy home and a soft life.

Hmmm, but wouldn’t a great way to try to undermine the current administration be to set up or support one these travel agencies? Someone should look into it.

blueINdallas
1 year ago

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/investing/us-steel-nippon-steel-deal/index.html

“US Steel, once the world’s largest corporation, agrees to sell itself to a Japanese company”

“We are confident that … this combination is truly best for all,” said US Steel CEO David Burritt. “Today’s announcement also benefits the United States — ensuring a competitive, domestic steel industry, while strengthening our presence globally.”

“Earlier this summer the United Steelworkers union vowed to only support a proposed offer by another unionized American steel company, Cleveland Cliffs, to buy US Steel, in a cash and stock deal then valued at $32.53 a share, or 40% less than Nippon’s all cash offer. The US Steel board rejected that offer and started considering other bids.”

“The union, which has 11,000 members at US Steel, attacked the Nippon Steel deal on Monday.”

WTF?!?

blueINdallas
1 year ago

Amendment XIV Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold ANY office, civil or military, under the United States, or under ANY State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an EXECUTIVE or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in INSURRECTION  or   REBELLION against the same, or GIVEN AID or COMFORT to the enemies thereof.
*But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
 
 
 

Orange Adolf directed the mob to assemble, to “fight like hell,” did nothing to stop them for hours, and had continued to promise to get the insurrectionists out of trouble. If SCOTUS doesn’t side with Colorado, we have a bigger problem.

ps – All of the Republicans running for prez are, essentially, propping up Orange Adolf. Are they also guilty of giving aid snd comfort to an enemy of our DEMOCRACY?
Shame on Nikki, and RonDuh, and the rest, even Chris Christie.

Bink
1 year ago

📻 🕰️