Time For The 25th Amendment

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25th Amendment to the United States Constitution

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

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49 thoughts on “Time For The 25th Amendment”

  1. Well, it would be interesting.  Couple questions – (1) Aside from not appearing to be a raving lunatic, is Pence any better than IMPOTUS?  (2) “…Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue…”  In what world can we expect #2 to happen?

  2. Jamie & Blue (in big D) here’s one take on Nike’s fortunes:

    Shares of Nike Inc. sank in morning trade Tuesday, but Oppenheimer analyst Brian Nagel said any near-term “backlash” from its controversial ad featuring Colin Kaepernick should be overshadowed by the power of the message sent to its current roster of athletes.

     
    The stock NKE,-2.66% slumped 3.0% in midday trade, enough to lead the Dow Jones Industrial Average’s DJIA,-0.05% decliners. It has now shed 3.8% since closing at a record $82.95 on Aug. 21.
     
    Nike’s stock price decline shaved about 17 points off the Dow, which was down 75 points. See Market Snapshot.

    Being that my investments tend to be the kiss of death for individual stocks I am loath to throw money into the market, but still… I’m tempted.

  6. Craig…  since I haven’t watched any cable news since last Thursday…  just wondering if there was something specific SFB has done in the last few days to make you say “time for the 25th amendment”.  Or is it just more of the same and this is wishful thinking.

    Personally…  at this point, I don’t care how he goes…   just make him go away.

  9. Republicans have decided they can live with Trump. Can’t do it without them. Can you imagine the cabinet and VP doing this?

  10. Most of the complaining about Democrats is being done by former goopers who don’t want to be blamed for what has happened all though it is entirely their fault.

  11. is it just my imagination, but didn’t we have a trail thread sometime during 2017 that said the same thing?

     

    kgc & craig, given what woodward wrote about the monomaniacal monster am not so sure martial law won’t be invoked or major world catastrophe cooked up to cancel and counter that midterm voter revolt with Nancy p at the helm.

    “off with their heads” will replace “lock her up” in trumpastan

  13. upi https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/09/04/Trump-failed-Mueller-interview-test-new-Woodward-book-says/2511536080928/ : 
    […]
    Trump insisted he wanted to sit for an interview with Mueller, but a practice run with Dowd didn’t go well. The lawyer questioned Trump, who contradicted himself and at times told lies, sources with knowledge of the practice interview told Woodward.
     
    “Don’t testify. It’s either that or an orange jumpsuit,” Dowd told the president.

     
    The lawyer reviewed the outcome of the practice run with Mueller’s team.
     
    “I’m not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot,” Dowd told Mueller. “And you publish that transcript, because everything leaks in Washington, and the guys overseas are going to say, ‘I told you he was an idiot. I told you he was a [expletive] dumbbell. What are we dealing with this idiot for?'”
     
    Dowd resigned shortly after.
    [….continues…]

  15. also from that UPI cite above:

     

    Other sources recounted to Woodward how White House aides and staffers hid papers from Trump, moves they justified as being in the best interest of the nation’s security.
    In one instance, former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn removed from Trump’s desk a letter that would have withdrawn the United States from a trade arrangement with South Korea.
     
    “I wouldn’t let him see it. He’s never going to see that document. Got to protect the country,” Cohn told a colleague.
     
    Former staff secretary Rob Porter also hid or stole documents in order to distract Trump or delay decisions. Woodward’s book describes a White House in which some of Trump’s closest aides don’t trust his decisions and doubt his understanding of complicated conflicts and diplomatic relationships.
     
    “He’s an idiot. It’s pointless to try to convince him of anything. He’s gone off the rails. We’re in crazytown,” chief of staff John Kelly said during one meeting in his office. “I don’t even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I’ve ever had.”
     
    Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called Trump a “moron” after the president questioned why the United States kept troops in South Korea during a National Security Council meeting. Defense Secretary James Mattis told him troops were there “in order to prevent World War III,” citing an intelligence operation allowing the United States to detect a North Korean missile launch in 7 seconds instead of 15 minutes.
     
    “Mattis was particularly exasperated and alarmed, telling close associates that the president acted like — and had the understanding of — ‘a fifth- or sixth-grader, '” Woodward wrote.
     

  16. Pogo, Craig and patd…  thank you for those responses.

    I’m not sure that the Republicans in Congress would willingly invoke the 25th based on a journalist’s book.  I really think it will take that blue wave materializing in the mid-terms to hold SFB accountable for anything.   But if I’m wrong….   yippee!

  18. Craig, I am not quite as optimistic as you are. If the 25th was exercised Pence would probably be a week candidate for 2020 and would be challenged in primaries. Meanwhile Trump is ready for the fight if Dems take the house and impeach. He not be convicted by the senate and will hold his base. The impeachment will add fuel to his deep state conspiracy bullshit. Dems will still be fractured going into 2020. Will the purists compromise and vote for an “imperfect” person as they didn’t for Hillary Clinton?  At this point I don’t see a strong candidate being nominated by a united Democratic party. I’m seeing Trump distract and deflect his way to reelection unless progressives unite.

  22. They won’t oust him. That’s my point. He was a known quantity when he was elected. My only hope is for him to self-destruct to the point where Republicans will no longer accept the facts.

  23.  renee, not just another book with anonymous sources…according to the transcript of their  phone call, names are named and there are tapes.   as pogo would say BWAAHAHAHA

     
    Trump: So I have another bad book coming out. Big deal.
     
    BW: . . . it goes on, and I . . . What you can count on is that I’ve been very careful. And Evelyn, are you on?
     
    EMD: Yes.
     
    BW: Evelyn Duffy, who’s my assistant, Mr. President.
     
    Trump: Hello, Evelyn.
     
    BW: She transcribed all the tapes because, with permission, I taped people for hundreds of hours.
     
    Trump: Good.
     
    BW: And I think there’s nothing in this book that doesn’t come from a firsthand source. Is that correct, Evelyn?
     
    EMD: I believe that’s —
     
    Trump: But are you naming names? Or do you just say sources?
     
    BW: Yeah, well, it names real incidents, so . ..
    Trump: No, but do you name sources? I mean, are you naming the people, or just say, people have said?
    BW: I say, at 2:00 on this day, the following happened, and everyone who’s there, including yourself, is quoted. And I’m sorry I didn’t get to ask you about these . ..
     

  27. First of all… The 25th amendment is not happening… You obviously missed your medication today for TDS…

    Second of all, if the Democrats regain the House and a slim majority in the Senate, impeachment without a factual finding from the Special Prosecutor that Trump committed a specific crime will result in a massive backlash against the Democrats…

    Last thoughts…

    What is very interesting to me is that the Woodward accounts, coupled with the Michael Wolff accounts, and what we know of the relationship between FBI officials, Fusion GPS, and the former British spy, teach us some really important things:

    1) Trump, his family, and the key members of the campaign, never thought they were going to win the election. They were just hoping to not get crushed, so they could make money after the election was over. Apparently, Melania, Trump’s wife, was promised they were going to lose.

    2) There is no evidence that the campaign conspired with the Russian government to win the election, especially since they never thought they would actually win in the first place.

    3) Manafort and Gates were criminals long before they got pulled into the Trump campaign. In fact, the only reason Manafort was hired to handle the GOP Convention is because no one else wanted the job. If Manafort had turned down the job, neither he nor Gates would have been indicted. Their decision to work for the Trump campaign cost them millions of dollars, and will get Manafort jail time.

    4) When it came to the possibility of the President being interviewed by Mueller, the legal team representing Trump was not concerned about collusion or obstruction of justice charges. They were concerned that a transcript of the interview would make the President look stupid. And Mueller, based on Woodward’s account, said he understood their rationale, and seemed to accept that as the reason the President would not testify.

    5) The entire investigation into Russian Collusion was orchestrated by pro-Clinton Democrats in the FBI. While Russia did attempt to influence the election, they, the Chinese, and other governments have been trying to do so for many years. Trump may be a bit erratic, but as the saying goes, “Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they ain’t all out to get you.”

  30. For the first time in our history we have a president who is a captive of a foreign nation, an asset of a hostile adversary. Dealing with that is going to be ugly. But we’ll be stronger for it once it’s done.

  31. And anyone who thinks Mueller is not fully prepared for anything that nitwit might try to pull out of his bag of tricks probably is not giving the matter much thought.

  32. The republicans are not going to DO anything, but aside from those mainly worried about their own tails in a crack not a damn one of them gives a rat’s patoot what happens to Twitterman or his family.

  33. For the first time in our history we have a president who is a captive of a foreign nation, an asset of a hostile adversary. Dealing with that is going to be ugly. But we’ll be stronger for it once it’s done.

  34. They were worried about Trump talking to Mueller because Don Sr can’t tell the truth.   Perjury.

  35. WADR, michaelhackmer is drinking the no collusion flavored Trumpade or Julianniade.  There’s likely some truth in what he says but the premises are all right out of Rudy’s playbook.  Trump may be a bit erratic?  And it may be a bit cold and empty in space.  One thing that will not happen IMHO is that the Dems or the Indies in the middle will  react adversely to any investigation of or action against SFB and vote for him as a result.  And like it or not, there indeed is evidence that the Trump campaign at a minimum attempted to conspire with the Russian government to win the election – and that included SFB Jr., Manafort, Jarred, and the list goes on.  And nevermind what coffee boy George Papadopoulos has told Mueller – but we know that he was involved in trying to set up coordination between the SFB campaign and Russia – who had damaging information about HRC according to him.  Too bad he couldn’t hold his liquor.

  37. A reminder from George Will on the TV today. “So full of artless jealousy is guilt, It spills itself in fearing to be spilt. To my sick soul every detail looks like an omen of disaster to come. Guilt makes you so full of stupid suspicions that you give yourself away because you’re trying so hard not to.”

  40. @Sturgeone @Craig Crawford and @Pogo… Not drinking anything… Think about it this way… We’ve had two major books with authors who interviewed, recorded, and compiled their stories through tons of direct sources, and people who were promised anonymity. These are all the SAME PEOPLE who Mueller is interviewing.

    So, what is the picture we are consistently presented with?

    Dysfunction.

    Back-stabbing.

    Incompetence.

    We see a group of people who never in their wildest dreams actually thought they’d get to the big show. And now that they are there, they work for the most toxic President in recent memory.

    It’s a daily roller-coaster.

    No one from the establishment wants to be there, so there is a huge experience gap, which causes constant problems.

    The handful of people who are professionals are stressed, because, if we believe what is in both books, they are working for a thin-skinned, hot tempered, reality-tv star and real estate mogul who doesn’t know anything about foreign policy or how government works… And does not want to learn.

    We are supposed to believe he is Putin’s puppet, and yet… He wants to assassinate Assad?

    Did Bob Woodward, of Watergate fame, spend months of his life interviewing people who work for a President, whose administration is under the cloud of investigation, and whose administration millions of Americans want overthrown or impeached, and never ask anyone if crimes were committed?

    There are lots of reasons to want this administration gone… And this Congress changed… But let’s stick with legitimate reasons… reasons based in substance, and not fantasy… And let’s realize that despite all of crap we read about Trump and this administration, it is the GOP-controlled Congress (with Democratic support) that has pushed a future of trillion-dollar deficits on us. It is the Democrats, then the Republicans, and probably soon – the Democrats again – who will continue to push us to the brink of bankruptcy. And as the Democratic Congress people seem to want so much embarks on two-years of investigations, hearings, and impeachment votes… Let’s not forget they too will be kicking the can on Social Security bankruptcy, Medicare bankruptcy, and more down the road…

  42. that nike crew are pretty darn clever with their “Believe in something. Even if it means sacrificing everything .”

    contrary to the twit saying it’s a terrible message ,  they’ll no doubt win some kind of advertising award for it.  what a subtle visual, a  subliminal image on the order of ancient iconography.  were they purposefully evoking those old efforts to depict Jesus’ face on the shroud of turin?   they sure have played well the martyr card in addition to 4 aces (serena, labron etc) for a grand slamming royal flush.   forget the market loss and burning shoes today, they’re betting on the tomorrows.

  45. Michaelhackmer, agree there are many reasons for change, but we’ve got a treasonous president on our hands. We need to deal with that right here and now, then address the nuances.

  46. Michaelhackmer, we agree on the underlying facts. Bunchafucking incompetent idiots unable to do much. The question is what to do with this lot. I agreed with Poobah that some fucking thing needs to be done to remove the head (of the) snake. I frankly don’t give a shit  whether it is by application of the 25th (which I agree is a remote possibility with the sycophants in the SFB cabinet) or a flip of the House, investigation and impeachment or a legal approach from Mueller or whoever. What’s the likelihood?  Not as bad as one might think. From a legal perspective the questions are not settled, Rudy’s bullshit notwithstanding. I say go for it.

    And Ping,  you’d be out of your mind if your company was “winning” like the US.

  48. The best course of action, in my opinion, is to anticipate what will come next following the mid-term elections: A s–t show… A clusterf–k of epic proportions! The Democrats will tear into this administration. There will be little to no legislative movement, only investigations, threats, and volatility. One side will demand Trump be removed, and there will be violence. The other side will believe a coup is being orchestrated, and there will be violence. Trump will most likely still be in office by 2020… And what will OR should be apparent to every sane American voter is that we need to get rid of every Democrat and Republican ASAP! You all see Trump as the threat to the country… The traitor… They are ALL guilty, my friends…

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