Despite calming words from Hillary Clinton and President Obama, many anti-Trump Americans aren’t smoking the peace pipe.
New York Times: “Thousands of demonstrators took to the streets in Manhattan on Wednesday night and converged on Trump Tower in Midtown to protest the election of Donald J. Trump as president. Similar protests happened in several cities across the country, including Boston, Chicago, Seattle and Washington, and at college campuses in California, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania.”
Hillary: “Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.”
Obama: “We are all rooting now for his success in uniting and leading the country.”
Feats don’t fail me now! Paul Ryan on prez-elect trump — ‘Most Incredible Political Feat’ regarding trump’s takeover…so let us hold trump’s feet to the fire. Term limits for the house warming gift…in my area, steve pearce is heading for house term #7! Put the protest to the rigged system of the gerrymandered house, my fellow angry Americans.
(My avatar sun has been changed to a sun with a CME — coronal mass ejection…it has been coming on since election night.)
boss, thank you for the doggie topping the thread. I needed that.
“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.”
Buddha
History lesson on redistricting from 1994
nbc’s Electoral College Lesson:
There are still more votes to be counted, but it looks almost certain that despite losing the presidency, Hillary Clinton will win the popular vote.
And likely by a million or more votes — a much larger margin than Al Gore enjoyed in 2000, when he too was denied by the Electoral College even though he nominally had more votes.
Put more starkly: It appears Americans chose Clinton, but got Trump.
Trump’s popular vote loss likely won’t constrain his effective power as president, especially with unified GOP control of Congress — just as it didn’t seem to hem in George W. Bush.
[….]
Five times in our history — in 1824, 1876, 1888, 2000, and, it appears, this year — the Electoral College has handed victory to the loser of the popular vote.
That’s nearly 10 percent of the time — though systematic black voter suppression and other differences in how the elections worked make it hard to determine the true popular choice in the first three cases.
The impact isn’t random, either. Since every state gets at least three electoral votes, there’s a bias toward small states. Consider that California has 69 times as many people as Wyoming, but only about 18 times as many electoral votes.
Five times in our history — in 1824, 1876, 1888, 2000, and, it appears, this year — the Electoral College has handed victory to the loser of the popular vote.
That’s nearly 10 percent of the time — though systematic black voter suppression and other differences in how the elections worked make it hard to determine the true popular choice in the first three cases.
The impact isn’t random, either. Since every state gets at least three electoral votes, there’s a bias toward small states. Consider that California has 69 times as many people as Wyoming, but only about 18 times as many electoral votes.
and even the prez-elect himself said… er well, tweeted: The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
in the current case, the drumpf for once spoke the truth
If only the media hadn’t pushed the idea that only the noisiest & nastiest supporters were the only ones voting for Trump.
If only the media hadn’t pushed the idea that there was no there there with regard to the private server she used to avoid the FOIA, the Clinton Foundation/pay-for-play, etc.
If only the media hadn’t pushed the idea that Hillary was going to win easily, creating a much larger shock on Tuesday night.
Yes, I am attacking the messengers. Very little real journalism in display over the past year. The mainstream media deals in biased editorials these days.
As for the protesters, they have their right to feel that way, but some of this feeling is because of the media at play this election cycle. Now, the protesters probably consider themselves to liberals, so hopefully those open minds will calm down and then go to work for causes they believe in.
Consequences of this election are on the near horizon. If you are LGBT in the military or are a federal employee, you are at the whim of Pence (who absolutely hates gays). Many people are in fear of losing their jobs because they work for a supervisor or manager who does not like gays. Life will be a tough time for several years under a bloater. We survived, barely, under the VI, we will now be under a low knowledge, bully.
Already the plans are in the works to pull us out of all the international Environmental and trade agreements plus ripping away medical care for 20 million people. Trump the Breitbart crowd pulling his strings and the GOP Congress will be hard at work undoing everything decent & good that President Obama has tried to do over the past eight years.
BiD
What media were you listening to?
Cause I never saw that and I almost always try to stay on mainstream media sites.
Don’t do the huffpo, don’t do the fox
Jack
Are the conservatives going to be incontrol?
I think that is really up in the air. One thing I’ve noticed is that everybody in the various Republican factions think they can co-opt Trump. But as we have seen time after time Trump is Trump, a loose cannon, with a lot of racist baggage. And everybody is still waiting for him to pivot. lol
Jack
I think Obama will go down as an ineffectual president. Nothing demonstrates his problem better than the “We are all rooting now for his success ” quote.
Really? It is one thing to say we owe him an open mind but jeez, it is another thing to say we are cheering for him.
Jack
The first time they try to push something like “conversion therapy” (a favorite of Pence), and Trump’s approval rating drops 10% – look out! Approval ratings might end up pushing trump all over the place.
Jack, success is viewed from the eyes of the Founders and the dreamers that followed them.
Once again Barney Frank is correct! “There is this problem, unfortunate, in America; when many on the left get mad they march, when people on the right get mad they vote. From the standpoint of influencing Government, voting beats marching!” When will these people learn that voting beats marching, or will they ever?
Hillary Clinton’s campaign was crippled by voters who stayed home
By Philip Bump, Washington Post, November 9 at 10:36 AM
On Tuesday night, Hillary Clinton appears to have been the choice of a plurality of voters to be the next president of the United States. As of writing, she leads Donald Trump by about 35,000 votes nationally, a margin that will likely climb as more votes from heavily populated, Democratic-leaning states are added.
But Hillary Clinton will not be the next president of the United States because those voters didn’t live in the right places. Clinton won big in states that Democrats usually win and closed the gap in big states that Democrats usually lose. But in smaller states where Democratic victories have been narrower in recent years, Donald Trump got more votes and therefore got the electoral votes and therefore won the presidency.
Data from overnight shows how the electoral map changed between 2012 and now. In a broad swath across the upper Midwest, Donald Trump outperformed Mitt Romney by a wide margin.
But that map obscures Clinton’s deeper problem: She received far fewer votes than Barack Obama in an election that was supposed to see a big increase in turnout. Ballots are still being counted, so these numbers will shift, but the Democratic candidate for the presidency received fewer votes in 2016 than 2012 in 46 states. Trump got more votes than Romney in 28 states.
In Michigan, Clinton got 13 percent fewer votes than Obama. Trump got 7 percent more than Romney.
In Pennsylvania, Clinton got 5 percent fewer votes than Obama. Trump got 9 percent more than Romney.
In Wisconsin, Clinton got 15 percent fewer votes than Obama. Trump did slightly worse than Romney — in a state that was home to Romney’s running mate.
I think we should save our most visceral protests if he seriously tries to include Newt, Rudy or Gen Flynn in our government in any position above file clerk.
Whskyjack,
I nominate “pivot” as a word that can disappear forever, thank you 😉
Blue Bronc,
The issues of this election touch many personally & you write eloquently about them. Easy for the rest of us (speaking nationally, not this blog) to not see the faces of those who will be hurt by how I vote, neighbor X votes.
blueINdallas,
I hope what you say about the Protesters putting words into action comes true. Anyone can protest anything but it means squat if you do nothing about it.
And don’t be a stranger. This applies to everyone. I build no walls.
Flatus
I’ve noticed that the eyes of the founders become cloudy over time. Also, while we remember a few of the founders fondly most of them we keep locked up along with our crazy aunts and uncles. Sad fact is if you were to poll the founders this morning I suspect they would be very comfortable with Trump.
Jack
We all knew The West Wing was let’s pretend, but those of us who genuinely believed in the encapsulated ideals of the show know exactly how it’s author feels.
Aaron Sorkin to his daughter
One small part:
Flatus – then we should be ready to bring out our most vigorous protests because every on of those folks will be at least considered for a cabinet position or his chief of staff. Rudy- Att’y General, Flynn – Sec’y of Defense; Newt – either Chief of Staff or (dare I say it?) Secretary of State.
BW, I wonder if drumpf also has Little Feat to go with his little hands???
Purple-in-Tampa,
Interesting articles in your post. Wondering how much personality will play in future nominations. Secretary Clinton is a good person but her campaign was traditional & stodgy. The President-Elect exploited whatever he could exploit & did it in a way that attracted attention. Not saying this is good, bad, whatever, just saying this could be a factor in not only how Parties choose Nominees but ultimately how we end up with a President. Style over substance.
The Media chases the buzz. The buzz becomes the story as long as it keeps buzzing. All I can say is that like it or not, we have a free press, and I for one wouldn’t have it any other way.
For Hillary hopefuls who want to cling to this long shot, don’t forget that Electors are not bound to their state’s choice. And the penalties are light in the states that have them.
Jack,
I agree with your thought s on the Founders. Although they might have been radical thinkers in their time, they certainly wouldn’t be now. Radical in the sense of turning the remnants of a monarchistic group of colonies into a Republic of the People for the People.
Recognizing that the Founders would be hopelessly dated in today’s world, I did add “…and the dreamers that followed them.”
Pogo,
Agree with your comments about the media. It’s the product the Parties will be selling in the future that has me intrigued. Will they offer nominees who are good, competent citizens or nominees who are both a dessert topping & a floor wax? What sells & what are they selling? New meaning to Mad Men.
bbronc, others are fearful for their lives too but other reasons. our neighbors 90 miles south have good reason to fear a “wag the dog” type invasion if drumpf makes a deal with putie to look the other way in return for u.s. doing the same with his incursions. no surprise if the industrial/military complex doesn’t do its thing again as an argument to promote more jobs.
bbc:
The Cuban government has announced it will hold five days of nationwide military exercises to prepare for “a range of enemy action”.
Cuba did not link the exercises to the victory of Republican candidate Donald Trump in the US presidential election.
But analysts say such exercises have in the past been held at times of tension or to send a signal to the US.
During his campaign, Mr Trump said he would reverse the recent thaw in relations between Cuba and the US.
[….]
It said the manoeuvres, dubbed Bastion Strategic Exercises, would be held from 16 to 18 November, with two extra days of exercises marking Cuba’s National Defence Days on 19 and 20 November.
It said they would serve to “prepare the troops and the population to counter a range of enemy action”.
They will include the movement of troops and “war material as well as fly-overs and explosions where required”, the statement read.
The first time Bastion Strategic Exercises were held was in 1980, shortly after the election of Ronald Reagan as US president.
‘course now if raul with fidel’s blessings changes his mind about letting the drumpf build his hotel aka casino in Havana, then maybe bets are off so to speak on the above conspiracy theory.
Reportedly Trump plans to put his business in a blind trust run by his kids. That ain’t very blind.
And so it begins.
…
POGO the answer of who should replace the Party leadership in Congress and the DNC should be progressive Democrats. I don’t think that Chuck Schumer, from New York, who does represent Wall Street, should be in a leadership roll. For the Senate leadership how about Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. I will bet that you knew that was coming.
The first test of whether the Wall Street-wing of the Democratic Party has learned anything from this election is whether President Obama will continue with his threat to try to have the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) approved by the lame duck session of Congress.
The Liberals Didn’t Listen: The Immense Cost of Ignoring Tom Frank’s Warnings
By William K. Black, New Economic Perspectives, November 9, 2016
I am writing this article late on election night in my office at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, about a mile from the home in which Tom Frank grew up just over the state line in Kansas. Beginning with his famous book, What’s the Matter with Kansas, first published in 2004, Tom Frank has been warning the Democratic Party of the increasing cost it was paying by abandoning and even attacking the working class, particularly the white working class. Some political scientists tried to savage his work, pointing to Bill Clinton’s electoral success and arguing that the disaffected members of the working class were also less likely to vote. Frank returned to the theme just in time for this election with a new book – Listen, Liberal – that documents in damning, lively narrative the New Democrats’ war on the New Deal, their disdain for organized labor, and their antipathy for what they viewed as retrograde white working class attitudes.
Frank kept showing the enormous price the working class were paying as a result of the economic policies of the Republicans and the New Democrats, and the indifference to their plight by the leaders of the New Democrats. Senator Bernie Sanders consciously took up the cause of reducing surging inequality and became a hero to a broad coalition of voters, many of them fiercely opposed to the New Democrats’ embrace of Wall Street cash, policies, and arrogance. Sanders set records for small donor fundraising and generated enormous enthusiasm. Sanders knew he would face the opposition of the New Democrats, but he also found that progressive congressional Democrats would rarely support him publicly in the contest for the Party’s nomination and even union leaders sided overwhelmingly with Secretary Hillary Clinton, the New Democrats’ strongly preferred candidate.
Hillary did not simply fail to reach out to the working class voters that the New Democrats had turned their backs on for decades, she infamously attacked them as “deplorables.” This was exactly the group of potential voters that was enraged because it believed, correctly as Tom Frank keeps showing us, that the New Democrats looked down on them and adopted policies that rigged the system against the working class. Hillary’s insult confirmed their most powerful bases for their rage against her. Her insult was an early Christmas present to Trump. Her attempt to walk the insult back was doomed.
how soon will drumpf announce putting his holdings in a trust and severing ties (somehow getting out of contracts) with all conflicting foreign ties?
if ever that is
McConnell and Ryan will never advance TPP in the lame duck session. I don’t know enough about it to opine whether that’s good or bad, but what I’ve read about trade agreements and their effects leads me to believe that on balance their effects are positive and reach far beyond the specifics in the agreements.
With or without mustard?
Still reeling here in Massachusetts!
Sorry Hillary and President Obama, I won’t be reasonable. I’m a pissed off nasty woman and I intend to roar till this travesty is over! I will never call him by his new “title” or even capitalize his name. He is a small, evil man, who is going to do harm to me and mine. The only time I won’t be roaring will be when I am crying. I expect there will be many tears over the next year if he does any of the things he says he’ll do. He doesn’t deserve a title or even a capital T. I won’t be pussy-footing around with calming remarks like This is democracy or Let’s give him a chance! I’m roaring mad! I will gladly send what few dollars I can to any group that is putting up a fight and any candidates that will fight him & his kind in the next 4 years. I won’t stop roaring. This momma lion is going to do whatever I can to protect what’s mine.
BiD: “If only the media hadn’t pushed the idea that there was no there there with regard to the private server she used to avoid the FOIA, the Clinton Foundation/pay-for-play, etc.” I don’t recall the media ever pushing the idea that there was no there there. They kept pushing the there that was not there ad nauseam. I’d say, if only they had done the same with trump, except there was plenty of there there, they just ignored it. 😀
Jamie: Your new avatar is perfect. The Sorkin letter was amazing and I totally agree with him, A couple more excerpts “The Klan won last night…Hate was given hope. Abject dumbness was glamorized as being “the fresh voice of an outsider” who’s going to “shake things up….”. Also, is the Calexit option broadly supported?
General Question: What will it take for the electoral college system to end? I’ve always thought it was a bad system whether my candidate won or lost. It seems many people agree, so is there anything that can be done?
Better Question: How are stumpy’s handlers going to turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse? I say it can’t be done. I give him a week before his mouth shows once again that he isn’t and never will be Presidential material.
Granny, this is an organization that I have been supporting for decades. They have a constant need for more supporters: Southern Poverty Law Center
PiT, you could be right about dem leadership, but is Bernie even still a Democrat? Regardless, he and Elizabeth are clearly the highest profile on the left side of the aisle in the Senate. What about the House, though? Frankly, I think Black is full of crap – Hillary was not referring to working class whites as deplorables – she was referring to openly racist, misogynistic and other bigots as deplorables, and I think any thinking person knows that. Those folks are not found only in the white working class. You cannot conflate the two groups. He is right about the New Democrats paying insufficient attention to the working class and their problems, but he fails to acknowledge that any Dem efforts to pass legislation that might have helped the middle class would go nowhere for the past 6 years. That doesn’t excuse the lack of outreach in the campaign, although I do not really agree that Hillary ignored the working class – but as compared to Bernie it may have seemed that way.
Granny: “is there anything that can be done?”
Only a Constitutional Amendment, proposed by Congress and ratified by state legislatures, can get rid of the Electoral College
For this election, flipping 20 or so of the Electors from Trump states would change the outcome. They are chosen by their state party leaders, so not all are Trump loyalists. One in Texas said before the election he would not vote for Trump, possibly abstain or vote for Hillary.
You know you all want to know!!! What happens if President Elect dies BEFORE the Electoral College Votes?
Let’s just say, it’s complicated.
Joint Statement from California Legislative Leaders on Result of Presidential Election
Wednesday, November 09, 2016
SACRAMENTO – California Senate President pro Tempore Kevin de León (D-Los Angeles) and California Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon (D-Paramount) released the following statement on the results of the President election:
Today, we woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California.
We have never been more proud to be Californians.
By a margin in the millions, Californians overwhelmingly rejected politics fueled by resentment, bigotry, and misogyny.
The largest state of the union and the strongest driver of our nation’s economy has shown it has its surest conscience as well.
California is – and must always be – a refuge of justice and opportunity for people of all walks, talks, ages and aspirations – regardless of how you look, where you live, what language you speak, or who you love.
California has long set an example for other states to follow. And California will defend its people and our progress. We are not going to allow one election to reverse generations of progress at the height of our historic diversity, scientific advancement, economic output, and sense of global responsibility.
We will be reaching out to federal, state and local officials to evaluate how a Trump Presidency will potentially impact federal funding of ongoing state programs, job-creating investments reliant on foreign trade, and federal enforcement of laws affecting the rights of people living in our state. We will maximize the time during the presidential transition to defend our accomplishments using every tool at our disposal.
While Donald Trump may have won the presidency, he hasn’t changed our values. America is greater than any one man or party. We will not be dragged back into the past. We will lead the resistance to any effort that would shred our social fabric or our Constitution.
California was not a part of this nation when its history began, but we are clearly now the keeper of its future.
Trump voters are racists when asked they think blacks are less evolved. Soon they will be denied entry to California just kidding
“ … but is Bernie even still a Democrat?”
Pogo,
Does it matter? Fact is he did much better than expected & tapped into something that shouldn’t be ignored but embraced. Will the DNC get this? I have my doubts. I’m expecting to see a growth in Non-Affiliated Voters.
I would love to see Trump placed into cuffs upon his arrival at the WH
More from Californians
Everyone has said so many articulate things today and as much as I’ve had a million thoughts I’d like to share, I haven’t quite found a way to communicate them in a way that’s cohesive, so I’ll just say this. I’m not sad because my candidate lost and I’m not crying because I’m a whiny millennial who didn’t get her way. In this election it was never about winning or losing. I’m upset because this man stands for everything I thought our country was moving past and the reality that that’s simply not true is terrifying. I feel like for every step we’ve taken forward, this is like ten steps backward, and I think I just expected better. I’ll be the first to tell you that I’m white and I’m privileged and that this situation may not even affect me personally but that doesn’t mean I don’t worry for all of the people who will feel the effects of the decision our country made last night. So no, I won’t calm down. I won’t get over it. And I won’t accept it and just move on. Because the reality of the situation is that we live in a very different country than I thought we did and good didn’t win over evil this time and that’s scary.
“Hillary was not referring to working class whites as deplorables – she was referring to openly racist, misogynistic and other bigots as deplorables, and I think any thinking person knows that. Those folks are not found only in the white working class.”
pogo, absolutely agree with you. it is deplorable that racists determined our election. their hatred of Obama drove the gridlock in washington these last 8 years and was more than instrumental in the campaign success. howeve, one will see an easing of the hateful rhetoric come january when there is no longer a black man in the white house. we night also see a few sensible bills to pass. wouldn’t be surprised if all they did was tweak and rename the aca (Obamacare) declaring they repealed it. remember it was originally the republican’s health care legislation so can’t imagine them changing much of it… big insure and big pharma will be in charge just as they are now.
Jamie, what with his age, likely high blood pressure, overweight and type a aggressive behavior, a stroke or cardio is knocking at his door. i don’t think anyone would question the validity of electoral college selecting the candidate who received the most votes.
We are rural voters. We face the same challenges anyone living in rural America has…schools healthcare other public services –people who use the land in bad and dangerous ways. And we have had meth problems etc. But people don’t turn on people who look and believe differently.
People are excusing bad behavior because since the 1960’s big manufacturing is not part of the American economy. I grew in Canton, Ohio when the steel mills and everything else was closing and the Nixon govenment said they would bring in new plants and job …..crickets. These places have refused to change. Well if you refuse to change because of your religious or cultural beliefs then you are going to be left behind and if they got left behind …it is their own fault.
The thing that finally is saving Canton is its arts community and the same could be said of Pittsburgh. When things got really bad and real estate and rents were cheap artists moved in. Now they are being gentrified out –exactly what Trump plans for the inner cities.
“I would love to see Trump placed into cuffs upon his arrival at the WH”
flatus, could the following (in addition to some tax evasion and other criminal activity) be to what you refer?
wapo: MOSCOW — Russian government officials had contacts with members of Donald Trump’s campaign team, a senior Russian diplomat said Thursday, in a disclosure that could reopen scrutiny over the Kremlin’s role in the president-elect’s bitter race against Hillary Clinton.
btw, any talk of possibility that Wisconsin and Pennsylvania vote results were cooked by clever hackers from you know where? they only had to concentrate on two or three key states… easy for them to do considering what we saw during campaign
voting machines are not hooked up to the internet
flatus or jace? drumpf’s people must have seen your recommendation to use “fanfare for the common man” as they used it for his intro walk for election night acceptance speech. he’s common alright if by that one uses the term when it means “vulgar”…. but ridiculous in common language to refer to a greedy rich arrogant oligarch as a common man.
“voting machines are not hooked up to the internet”
kgc, but their programing can be played with ahead of time…. and also the official reporting of results.
example: they had some faulty penn vote machines that flipped votes that night… in that case from gop to dem. could easily have been the other way around.
really Patd the city of Phila or State of Pa hired Russians to program voting machines???
or they snuck in….?????
The flipping thing also occurred in texas
people need to stop under cutting the voting process
Sarah Palin for sec’y of the Interior?????????????????????
ask booz allen Hamilton who goofed in their hiring of a couple of tech folk
If that did happen and I seriously doubt it I’m sure Glenn Greenwald will find out
Pat
When there is a simple explanation use it.
The democrats lost because they couldn’t hold together their coalition in the rust belt.
They lost it several year ago when they didn’t pay attention to union workers core needs and values.
Jack
jack, hard for me to accept the word “lost” when they won the popular vote.
okay, okay, they screwed up in the rust belt. but they did better than the gops in the country as a whole.
I know that there will be some stuff happening in the next 4 years that I will be very unhappy with… such as our environmental laws being dismantled. But now that the government will consist of a Republican Congress, a Republican Senate, and a Republican President… there will be no more excuses for them. They better learn how to govern to make things better for the working and middle classes… and they better do it quickly.
Of course… I do understand that voters didn’t so much vote for Trump because he was a Republican… but because he was anti-establishment. If things go well, they can take the credit… but if they don’t, there’s only Republicans to blame. We shall see what we shall see. I will say at least one good thing about Trump… he isn’t beholden to the Koch brothers who didn’t give him one thin dime.
I have no problem with the electoral college — it protects the rights of small rural states with little population
and I agree with those who say – the Dems lost because they did not motivate their voters.
Like a lot of walking dead from the 2008 financial crises, we were completely forgotten again by the two party system…..even in my family i have been forgotten…it seems that it all went back to business as usual for the two partys…..they dont really care about the middle class….there was some sympathy expressed by all…..but that nothing has changed….so i say keep your sympathy and dont fk with us again…..
Some times I dont know what would be better….in 2008 i wanted the whole system to explode…specially when obama did nothing for us for a very long time….he just made it easier for others to get rich when he did try to help people that lost it all……now im in the same quandary…..i dont think that all that much is going to change…things as they are, changes that have been made, etc, etc, were done by both partys……just taking turns , something for the spectators to root for….a little word here….and the Dems make it their mantra….a little word there and the Rs make it their mantra…..but if you take the time to look at it….it is basically the same thing…..cept for a cpl of things…..both partys are one and the same…..so i dont expect too much to change….. Maybe it should all explode and the world can start all over again…….
We have just been scammed again…..Cheney/Bush scammed us…..then Obama scammed us..now Its Trumps turn to scam us……What is really, really sad….is that we never learn anything from all of this…..
Do you think Obama really cares? its not in his actions…cept a cpl of things….after all …he was potus for 8 yrs….he will alway be the “present” president to me……wonder how much he and his family are worth now…..bet if you look into how much each of daughters are worth now….it would be sinful……that is all this is about……trump scammed us each and everytime that he lied…and yet the country let get away with it…….when the country gets tired of him…..we will get scammed by the next democrat that is waiting his/her turn…..behind close doors they already know who this is going to be….We need to get our collective heads out of the sand….and take a good look at our selves……
The most tragic events are a great benefit to mankind and therefore necessary….but we need to learn from them
-Chuang Tzu
I added the last7 words cos …….
Pat
But not where it counted. It was kinda silly to run up the vote in liberal areas when you needed it in the moderate to conservative areas. In michigan she spent all of her time in the Black areas very little out in the union white suburbs.
Jack
Better start saving money to send to the public interest groups that will be suing Secy of the Interior Palin for allowing drilling in National Parks
KGC
I wouldn’t mind if the electoral college were in some way proportional to population, but as it is the balance is way out of whack. Every state gets a minimum of 3 votes. This gives the citizens of Wyoming way more power than the citizens of California. It’s no longer a matter of rural vs urban as originally intended but sparsely settled vs densely settled.
above cartoon and below commentary from horsey in la times:
Trump’s careless ignorance could make him the world’s most dangerous man
There is a good reason that Donald Trump failed to win the endorsement of a single serious newspaper (the Ku Klux Klan “Crusader” does not count). It is not because the press is uniformly liberal; there were plenty of traditionally Republican and conservative editorial boards that could not bring themselves to support Trump.
Read more
Im always looking at a way out………Im going to join the Jim Webb space telescope program……..read where it is many many times (20?forgot) the size of the Hubble telescope……they are testing it out right now….in order to fix anything wrong here on earth before launching….the jim webb telescope will be able to see and identify something as small a a bumble bee from it……..if i can hitch a ride…..im outa here…….Yeah……Jim Webb….that was the ticket…….later
solar
you do know it’snot that James Webb
Jaime
Mostly I think the electoral college works
;
Before the election one newspaper that keeps a list that rated Trump the 6th biggest danger to the world
I have working on legal recreational marijuana since 1974. Now I am going out to celebrate that victory with another old white woman who has also been working on this issue.
I gave up trying to write (i can and do for business purposes, takes twice as long) and spell correctly……the way i think in my native language does not let me it seems,unless i make an effort…….In English….when someone brakes something…that particular individual is blamed for it…..in spanish….no one is blamed….”se cebro” is said….it broke its self…..there for no guilt trips attached to an accident….
Same thing when you introduce an uncle or an aunt or anyone….you must explains on which side of the family an uncle comes from…….or some information that lets others know ……i think that Asian cultures are the same……..sorry for all of my mistakes……..going for a walk about…..later
Kath,
Yes i know that its not the same J W……humor is what is going to get me out of this mood that im in……that,science and Mama Nature……..
Trump won because we are a land populated by vicious idiots who value football over education. Be afraid, there will be no salvation.
Yep Whsky, early in the campaign I asked a WV rural activist what issues his folks, working class whites and labor grass roots needed to hear from Democrats. “Nothing,” he said, “They just want Democratic leaders to show they’re not afraid to touch them.”
Craig, despite what these folksy whites told you, what they really meant was “we hate gays, women, blacks, mexicans, and muslims.” I’d tell you to learn to read between the lines, but it’s a little late for that. You’ll fare better than I under the new regime, for a while, at least.
What those same types of people said to me, and I quote:
“fuck that lyin’ bitch”
“i don’t hate mexicans but they just need to get out, fuck ’em”
“you respect women too much”
“what are ‘brown people'”
etc. actual quotes, though
All these people are armed to the teeth. They love guns more than people. They can’t wait to “defend their rights”.
Bink
you can’t win without them and you can’t win only on a liberal agenda.
Because if you do next time it won’t even be this close. If the Republicans had 2 brain cells they would put a clamp on the racist talk and the Democrats would lose most of the hispanic vote and a quarter of the black vote. The Democratic coalition is way more conservative than people realise
Jack
Last one ………..it is very simple to me…….the ds and the rs are just two apposing teams………they keep us apart intentionally……the ds take the minorities for granted and think that is the way to win…..but they know that they should also reach out to the middle class whites….but they dont….not really……i have irish, german, jewish, polish, others that are middle class and very open minded…..but they get into this team mentality and just rah, rah, rah, for their team to win…..they are the ones that were lost to clinton…..the Rs…..reach out to their side of haters and religious nuts….to balance out the minorities, …..others like my friends ….are up for grabs….it all depends on which teams turn it is to reach out to them…..
If they ever intended to include (“the big tent”)all people it has been lost on me…..they would not want that to happen imo….its very controllable this a way…..only two teams to root for……working class people …..get mad at one team or the other….and take turns voting against one or the other…..just as its all planned out to be…..nothing complicated…when you dont buy into the team mentality…but it is very frustrating …when you do buy the team mentality…….just roll with it…..that is what you want…..your turn is just around the corner………
I think the sad thing with Clinton is that she had the CGI working in coal country, working in rural depressed areas and with good modern ideas. If she had lead the charge on bringing in developement to those areas and put her name on it she would now be president elect.
Jack
The “Melania Initiative” against cyber-bullying is just a front for suppressing anonymous online free-speech to intimidate people like me to shut up and not criticize the regime. So, if you’re not a fan of mine, don’t worry, I’ll be silenced, very soon. So will you, unless you’re praising the regime.
Poobah, You were in WV and didn’t stop by for a drink? I’m hurt (not really – I suspect you were busy). I would be curious to know who the WV rural activist was though. Back in 08, before WV jumped over the edge and went full pugn, Bill & Hill did fundraisers here in our little town – in people’s homes, and our little town was a place Bill visited while he was Pres. WV went all “War on Coal” after the 08 election and almost all pugn pols tied dems to O & HRC and their “anti job” and “anti coal” policies. Played well in rural WV.
Jamie,
I prefer ketchup, I don’t care for mustard.
bumpy ride ahead for drumpf. be sure to read entire article… they point out that “nothing in the law protects a sitting president from having to testify or being forced to release private business and financial records.”
usa today Trump’s courtroom baggage follows him to White House
But the most problematic for President-elect Trump will likely be the real-estate course racketeering and fraud cases – because of the seriousness of the allegations made. In any one of the cases, an official ruling by a court that Trump or his company were financially liable for fraud could provide Congress with grounds to consider impeachment proceedings. There’s a hearing Thursday in the California case to hash out motions that will set the tone for the trial, which is set for Nov. 28.
“If the fraud and racketeering allegations against President-elect Trump are true, he is legally impeachable for high crimes or misdemeanors,” said Christopher Peterson, a law professor at the University of Utah who’s researched the Trump University cases, who acknowledged that while that’s technically the case, a Republican controlled Congress makes that very unlikely. “Whether he is politically impeachable is another matter.”
Nevertheless, Peterson said on Wednesday that a long, drawn-out public exposure of a sitting President of the United States to witness testimony, embarrassing documents or what would be a high-profile trial could be time consuming and distracting, and come with lingering political cost.
so consider leader of house gopers dilemma to or not to impeach with senate (most of whom revolted by drumpf) likely convicting thereby insuring pence presidency and ryan selected as veep.
do I catch a whiff of schadenfreude out there?
Wow,
Something is happening my CAT stock is up 12% in the last 2 days. Time to start worrying.
Jack
jack, here’s foxbusinessnews on cat stock
Donald Trump’s victory might have caught pollsters off guard and sent stock markets across the globe tanking, but investors in Caterpillar Inc. (NYSE: CAT) are among those partying. The heavy-machinery stock opened with a huge push the morning of Nov. 9, surging almost 10% in trade at one point to hit its 52-week high. The market clearly expects the struggling equipment maker to thrive under Trump’s presidency.
[….]
Referring to Japan in January, Trump reflected on how a weak yen is hurting Caterpillar: “Friends of mine are ordering Komatsu tractors now because they’ve devalued the yen to such an extent that you can’t buy a Caterpillar tractor. And we’re letting them get away with it, and we can’t let them get away with it.”
Pogo, i’m off the hook, just remembered that guy was from Kentucky — Whitesburg. Dee Davis of the Center for Rural Strategies
article in my 2:27 comment with usa today’s “nothing in the law protects a sitting president from having to testify or being forced to release private business and financial records” makes me think it won’t be much longer before we finally get to see his income tax records… sadly too late to affect the election though.
Bink, assuming that all rural people are racists is just as prejudicial as assuming that all blacks are criminals. Liberals can be bigots too: “a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions”
it begins
msn reuters: Judge rejects Trump bid to bar campaign statements from fraud trial
A U.S. judge on Thursday tentatively rejected a broad bid by Donald Trump to keep statements from the presidential campaign out of an upcoming fraud trial over his Trump University venture.
U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel said Trump’s lawyers can renew objections to specific campaign statements during trial. The tentative ruling came in advance of a pretrial hearing later on Thursday.
While I understand you’re calling me a “bigot”, Craig, understand that I’m making no effort to subjugate you. Also, understand that we will both be subjugated by the vicious and hateful for whom you’d rather apologize than repudiate.
Samantha Bee Doesn’t ‘Want To Hear A Goddamn Word’ About Black Voter Turnout
“It’s pretty clear who ruined America: white people.”
Flatus: Yes, I’m very familiar with the Southern Poverty Law Center it’s one of many places I’ve sent my small donations to whenever I can.
Craig: I signed a petition this morning to do something about the EC. Don’t know if anything will come of it but at this point signing petitions and making small donations are at least things I can do.
KGC: I just don’t believe that the Electoral College has kept up with the original intentions it was created for. Some things don’t age well with time!
Jack & Pat: Guess Caterpillar folks are expecting a lot of money coming their way for wall building. I think they will be greatly disappointed.
Here’s what I told #1 son a little while ago…We can’t just be upset, we have to take action in whatever ways we can. Make donations to organizations, candidates and causes every chance you get. Sign petitions for any groups working for positive changes. Let your voice be heard, join local groups who support your goals if possible. Life as we know it changed yesterday but we don’t have to be quiet about it. We can’t just passively sit by. SING OUT LOUISE!!! (still roaring!)
America Elects A Bigot
Honestly, what liberals really need to be doing is working to support women that will be raped and abused, minorites that will be harrassed, gays that will be bullied, and Mexican-American families that will be broken-up. Those are real and immediate needs. Older women of America, the young women need you now more than ever. They need to talk to you, in person, about how you can all help each other.
Craig,
Been awhile since I’ve commented. I usually just read and retreat. I have to say that you appear pragmatic about the situation
and try to offer some useful insight and commentary. I am a little surprised at many of the comments. Particularly from so many of the seasoned individuals. I understand emotion and disappointment but many truly seem to be coming unhinged.
For the sake of a little diversity on the comments I will admit that I voted for Trump. I wasn’t pleased with my choices to begin with but in my lifetime I don’t believe that my primary choice ever made it to the general election. That being said I decided to vote for the person most likely to be a disruptor of the stagnant political environment that currently exists. I figured that we survived an incredibly unqualified Obama for 8 years we could certainly survive another experiment in the other direction. You never know we might get lucky.
Eight years, ago, Craig, you asked me to help you change the world. Today, you’re using trite message-board inanities in an attempt to belittle me.
Calling someone a racist is not equivalent to calling someone a criminal. One is an imprisonable offense, the other isn’t. You’re having trouble with false equivalencies, lately. I never called all rural people “racists”, by the way, I called white conservative anti-Obama obstructionists “racist”, because I’ve spoken with enough of them to hear their overtly racist statements.
“You never know we might get lucky”
Gambling with our future. Brilliant.
A Letter To My Wife The Day After The Election
I guess this makes the second time that Hilary was defeated for the presidency by an unqualified man. I guess that does in some way make her
” uniquely qualified”
Laughs…
Jax
So what disaster has Obama visited on this country?
Just curious as I’ve mostly viewed Obama as mostly ineffective but not the disastrous problem his predecessor was.
And given that you are a man who is part of the import export infra structure I would think Trump would be you last choice.
Jack
“I understand emotion and disappointment but many truly seem to be coming unhinged.”
jaxtrader, welcome back. in response to your observance above, if you’re including me among those many who seem to be coming unhinged I disagree. I don’t seem to be, I am gobsmackedly unhinged in disbelief, wallowing in and grasping at straws of any conspiracy theory that makes sense in an insensible world.
one could rightly say I am the epitome of a sore, very sore loser.
Jack,
That’s what I’m saying. We survived Obama and he never ran anything before taking office. I agree that his tenure was mostly
ineffective.
As for import/export…don’t laugh. hear me out on this. I think (hope) that Trump’s statements on cancelling trade agreements are just
positioning efforts in the extreme to set the stage for real negotiations which meet somewhere in the middle that is still advantageous to the US. The more extreme you appear at first the more reasonable you appear as the deal is done. It is a long understood technique but oddly very difficult to pull off for most. I haven’t been able to master it as I have a tendancy to want to be too realistic in my intitial offers.
Patd,
Laughs….I understand.
Maybe I’m just so jaded that I have lost the ability for any of this political stuff to arouse much of an emotion.
The problem I see with that is if he doesn’t follow through what does that do when the midterms come in 2018.
Trade deals take a long time.
I tend to take him at his word and I’m not sure the business Republicans have the power to stop him.
And unlike Obama, He will use the bully pulpit.
btw, welcome back, we need a sane voice from the center right around here.
Mrs Jack is traveling this week , she comes in late and i need the fixin’ for a cold adult beverage to hand her as she walks in the door. So I’m off to the store.
Later
Jack
admittedly some of it is just a “woman thing” … like how do you console that 104 year old woman seen on news Tuesday so proudly going to vote finally for a woman to be president? she voted in every (save 1) election since she became of age to vote. what do you say to those who were borne before women were even allowed to vote and who were looking forward to celebrating a female president officially in 2017 (a century later) presenting that $20 bill with Eleanor on it with great and moving ceremony? yeah, some of my unhingement is just a woman thing.
Patd,
I can’t tell you that I understand from a women’s point of view but I can tell you this. I am certain that we will have a woman president.
I just don’t want it to be because she was a woman. I want it to be because she was the best choice. And for me, at this time, I just didn’t think that she was the best choice.
I just today heard that the Trump campaign manager was the first woman to ever hold that job for a winning presidential campaign. It’s kind of ironic but it looks like women, in large part, had a lot to do with Hilary not winning. I truly believe that when the right one comes along she will have no problem winning.
Do you think that you could vote for a republican woman if she had centrist social leanings?
I’m really sorry we live in such a vicious and misogynist society, pat, sincerely. You, too, Jamie, and KGC, and Granny, and Renee, and every other woman. I’ll continue to support you and yours, and incur the social penalties as gracefully as I can. My support is trivial compared to that which you can offer each other.
Patd, unless the trial lasts 2 months drumpf won’t be a sitting president while it’s going on. Look for a motion to continue by the plaintiffs. The trial will do two things. The first is that it will eat up time that Trump doesn’t really have. And the second, if the jury finds in favor of the plaintiffs it will confirm that America just elected a fraud for its president.
Thanks President Obama, today my IRA achieved an all-time high even after mandatory withdrawals.
“centrist social leanings?” -jax
Can you articulate what that means, please?
An adherent to the Pisa School
The trump admin is going to punish the Wall Street elites by de-regulating them. Yup, that’ll show the bastards.
Well for once a secession I could favor. Petition started in Oregon, but they want to include CA, WA, & NV at some point
Now the rumor machine has Steve Bannon of Breitbart as a possible Chief of Staff. That would be Goebbles in charge of the Trump reich.
I never equated working class Whites with racists.
I equate trump, his two older sons, bannon, ann coulter, david duke, the bundys, rush limbaugh, arpaio, jason lewis, stormfront, and small potatoes trump supporters paul hennessy of suburban Chi, dr paul workman of Twin Falls, ID, and bill beckman of Mill Lake, WI, with racists. I certainly wouldn’t call any of them working class.
XR
Absolutely agree, but they do perpetuate the working class voting against their own self interest that then mirrors the racism of the perpetrators.
From Vanilla Birdies
Before anyone assumes that the floater was a wily business crafter, he is not. As established by many he was a loser from the start and never actually won a business deal. He had money from his white supremacist father and was able to use his being an asshole without any moral compass to do anything he wanted, followed up with a team of attorneys (anyone interview one of those soul less assholes?).
Without any sense of right or wrong the commode blocker did anything he could do, anywhere, anytime. I am waiting for the poor lady who anonymously sued him for rape to return soon. Also, I expect there is a lot of money out there of the movies of his sex and cocaine parties with him snorting up enough to leave him with permanent sniffles and a lot of shots for STD’s.
His voters have many issues, but all them end with one thing. They voted for him. He is the elected one. Will he evade indictment on many civil and possibly felony charges. I doubt it. Will he evade charges of treason for giving U.S. military secrets to his saddle buddie Putin? We will find out, and most likely will not have to wait too long. Then the question will be what the Republican Congress wants to do. Be complicit? Or, do the right thing?
Now is the time to look for and recruit people for 2018 and 2020. People who are not and will not be on Social Security (if it still will exist) at that time. I will suggest a person who might have lived on a farm, or knows what a living breathing cow feels and smells like. Someone who can tear down an engine and reassemble it. Someone who has worked in retail, or a fast food restaurant, or did something manual in their life. Someone who can stand and talk a good tale (which should reasonably be close to the truth). Someone who has seen the big city and the middle of nowhere under the stars. Someone who has seen death close, either by holding grandma’s hand as she died or fought in a war. Someone who is more than (I detest this, but this is one thing that happened) “well prepared”. Someone who has gone to college. Someone who has bet the world on anything (new business or invention) – no need to be successful, just have the experience of risking it all. But, whomever is the one to run needs to be connected to the voters. A Warren, thirty years ago, would be fine with me.
This is the last of the post election posts I will be doing. It is fait accompli.
Rude-ee says the important point of law is equal treatment under the law
So does that mean Melanoma will have her citizenship revoked
Jamie: Amen to you and Vanilla Birdies! I will not be nice, sit down or shut up! I feel like Howard Beale (Peter Finch) in Network “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” Still roaring!
BB: Too bad Lizzie isn’t 10yrs younger. 🙁
Donald and Melanoma are going to reach out and touch his supporters…lmao
compare Justin Trudeau’s cabinet to the names Trump is considering I guess job requirements are old, overweight, white men with multiple wives.
Seriously Sarah Palin?????????????
They have sown the wind……..
The media can only deal in cliches and speculation
Now Katy Tur from MSNBC is telling us what a great guy Trump is….
After the Dems made such a fuss about Trump not accepting the election they could hardly
do anything…after that they have to take the high road
The media is acting like they experienced love at first sight.
We are playing by Republican rules so we should play like Republicans
lie, cheat and do anything you can obstruct
The Sniffer in Chief still sniffing
“Donald Trump has just named one of the most racist politicians in all of America to his transition team. Kris Kobach was the architect of the most racist law in modern American history. SB 1070 passed in Arizona in 2010. What did it mean? If you have brown skin or an accent, police had a right to stop you, detain you and demand you prove your citizenship.
Good night XR……..want me to read you a story……….
Another blow to the soul: Leonard Cohen dead at 82.
Russians had contact with Trump campaign
Bernie Sanders has suggested Keith Ellison be the new chairman of the Democratic Party. I think that is a great idea.
Dr Dean wants in too surely they can figure out a way to work together
Gee, I remember being told to fall in line & join together after Hillary jacked the primary from Bernie. I was told to get over it. Small world.
“Lie, cheat and do anything you can to obstruct.” Hmmm, straight outta the Clinton playbook.
Straight out of the Trump McConnell-Ryan Playbook
Get over Obsessive Clinton Hatred neither one of them is going to be doing anything public
I want our country back. LIZ 2020 !
KGC
Doesn’t Ellison already have a day job?
Sorry But the Democrats need a full timer for that position.
Besides I’m tired of the mess that DC has made of the party. Return it to the states for control.
Dean did a good job of building up the state parties put him back in charge.
Jack
RIP Leonard Cohen. Died at 82.
Sturg,
When the winds blow against you….stand strong and row against it…….all i can come up with, maybe another tekill ya………
Woke up and the evil that is the President Elect still exists due to the Electoral College rather than the desire of the people. I shall now go and quietly hate this disgusting example of all that is rotten in the male of the species.
Oh god, John Bolton is on drumpf’s list of 30 for top security clearance. We’re screwed.
Solarman………you right about dat………row well and live…….