How A Cohen Pardon Backfires

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Overlooked? A pardoned Michael Cohen can still be compelled to testify against Trump, but then by law he can’t take the 5th because he is no longer in jeopardy of incriminating himself for prosecution. If he exonerates Trump and prosecutors can prove that’s a lie, well, that’s perjury, meaning he would have to be pardoned again.

Another scenario, perhaps more likely, offered by Alan Dershowitz, the only law pundit I’ve seen discussing this obvious consequence, is that Cohen could refuse to testify, be held in contempt of court, and Trump would have to pardon him for that.

In other words, the only way for Trump to silence Cohen could be to issue multiple pardons that could expose the President to allegations that he’s obstructing justice.

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62 thoughts on “How A Cohen Pardon Backfires”

  1. but but but couldn’t he argue that he has to take the 5th because he is in jeopardy of incriminating himself for prosecution (perjury) if he has to testify and (contempt) if he refuses to testify?

    or can a presidential pardon apply not only to the specifically named past federal crime but to all others in the future?

    perhaps to get around this pardon dilemma. there needs be multiple indictments in multiple jurisdictions for multiple state crimes to be on safe side.

  2. speaking of possible wrong doing by favs of the twit

    cnn: Ronny Jackson allegations threaten to upend nomination

     

     

    p.s.:  could the good doc be pardoned of perjuring when he signed off on a federal document that the twit was in top notch mental and physical health?  🙂

  3. It sounds like Trumpco is damned if it does & damned if it doesn’t.  Good.

    patD – Do you mean Trumpsky would issue a schoolyard pardon, pardoning Cohen to infinity, no touch-backs?

  5. BiD, you noted yesterday “Macron & his wife seem a better match (a real match) more so than Melania and Orange Julius Cesar.”  you are so right. there is a 24 year gap for both couples, but that’s about where their commonality ends.  

    on the macron gap in last year’s wapo:

    Just how unusual is Macron’s 24-year age gap with his wife anyway?

  6. la times:

    For Melania Trump, the shroud of invisibility lifts during a week of public attention

    [….]
    Robert Watson, an American studies professor at Lynn University in Florida, who has written extensively about first ladies, said Melania Trump’s background should be a strength — she is an immigrant, now an American citizen, who speaks several languages. But that too has been made problematic by her husband’s broadsides against immigrants and his desire to retreat from global cooperation.
    “The first lady can be a secret weapon and … Melania could soften his image,” Watson said, but instead she has chosen so far to do “the absolute minimum necessary.”
    Ohio University historian Katherine Jellison said that while first ladies are almost always more popular than the presidents to whom they’re married, Melania Trump may be tripped up more than most by the current ” ‘take no prisoners’ political environment.”
    “Trump critics can point to Mrs. Trump and say she’s been an enabler or she’s a victim of the Stockholm syndrome,” Jellison said. “I think if she did have a more upfront role, in an effort to soften his public image, she’d come in for more slings and arrows. Part of the reason she is more popular than her husband is that she is lower profile.”
    [….continues…]

  7. ny times editors board:

    Mueller Guides Us Through the Swamp

    The special counsel, Robert Mueller, has not yet presented evidence that the Trump campaign conspired with Russian agents to subvert the 2016 election. But he has already provided an instructive guide to the swampy world of corporations, law firms and Washington lobbying shops, and to how a tough prosecutor can bring some measure of justice to bear.

    […]
    In the world of white-collar crime, though, business as usual has meant that the attorney-client privilege has often been a means to keep the law at bay. Companies have long used the privilege to shield information about misconduct. For some years in the Bush administration federal prosecutors cut deals in which companies waived the privilege. After a lobbying campaign by businesses and an adverse court ruling, though, the Justice Department barred the practice.
    All this is an indictment of a criminal justice system that has fed the swamp in which Mr. Trump and his ilk thrive. Industrial-level fraud by America’s banks nearly brought the world economy to its knees in 2008, and no senior executive was even charged. This past week, with a billion dollars in new federal penalties for Wells Fargo, we were reminded that nobody has been hauled into court over a range of its sleazy practices one would expect from a boiler-room scam, not the nation’s third-largest bank.
    In his book “The Chickenshit Club” — named for how James Comey, then a United States attorney, referred to prosecutors who never lost a case because they avoided ones they might not win — Jesse Eisinger documents how the Department of Justice has “lost the will and indeed the ability to go after the highest-ranking corporate wrongdoers.”
    Mr. Mueller is showing prosecutors a better way to deal with white-collar crime.

  8. the wrap:  Porn Star Jessica Drake Backs Stormy Daniels’ Trump Threat Story on ‘GMA’ (Video)

     
    Jessica Drake is supporting fellow adult entertainer Stormy Daniels claims that she was threatened by someone to keep quiet about her affair with President Donald Trump.
     
    In an interview with “Good Morning America” airing Monday, Drake — who claims she refused a $10,000 payment to have sex with Trump after meeting at a Lake Tahoe golf event in 2006 — said Daniels’ story checks out.
     
    “She actually told me about the threat twice,” Drake told ABC News. “So the first time she told me about the threat was shortly after it happened. She relayed the experience to me. I said something like, ‘I’m so sorry, I can’t even imagine. What are you going to do?’”
    Recently, Daniels and her attorney, Michael Avenatti, released a sketch of the man who she says threatened her, based on Daniels’ recollection of the incident that occurred in a parking lot in 2011. Daniels previously said she was approached by the individual after she recounted her story about sleeping with Trump at the same celebrity golf tournament Drake is referencing to a tabloid.

     
    Drake told ABC News that when she came forward with her own story about Trump in 2016, Daniels reminded her of the threat she received.
     
    “She goes, ‘Remember what I told you about all those years ago? Be careful. Be really careful. You know, don’t be alone.'”
     

  9. Derby Update:  Quip and Groncowski are out and Combatant and Instilled Regard are in.  Time to update or make choices.  Post Position draw in 8 days.

    Rank
    Horse
    Jockey
    Trailmix
    Sire
    Dam

    1
    Magnum Moon
    Luis Saez

    Malibu Moon
    Dazzling Song

    2
    Good Magic
    Jose Ortiz
    Renee
    Curlin*
    Glenda The Good

    3
    Audible
    Javier Castellano

    Into Mischief*
    Blue Devil Bel

    4
    Noble Indy
    J Velazquez

    Take Charge Indy
    Noble Maz

    5
    Vino Rosso
    John Velazquez
    Sturgeone, KGC, BB
    Curlin*
    Mythical Bride

    6
    Bolt d’Oro
    J Castellano

    Medaglia D’Oro*
    Globe Trot

    7
    Enticed
    Junior Alvarado
    Jamie
    Medaglia d’Oro*
    Its Tricky

    8
    Mendelssohn
    R. Moore

    Scat Daddy*
    Leslies Lady

    9
    Justify
    Mike Smith
    Craig
    Scat Daddy*
    Stage Magic

    10
    Flameaway
    Mark Casse

    Scat Daddy*
    Vulcan Rose

    11
    Solomini
    Flavien Prat

    Curlin*
    Surf Song

    12
    Bravazo
    Gary Stevens

    Awesome Again
    Tiz O Gold

    13
    My Boy Jack
    Kent Desormeaux

    Creative Cause
    Gold N Shaft

    14
    Promises Fulfilled
    R. Albarado

    Shackleford
    Marquee Delivery

    15
    Free Drop Billy
    I Ortiz Jr

    Union Rags
    Trensa

    16
    Lone Sailor
    James Graham

    Majestic Warrior
    Ambitious

    17
    Hofburg
    J. Ortiz

    Tapit*
    Soothing Touch

    18
    Firenze Fire
    Manny Franco

    Poseidon’s Warrior
    My Every Wish

    19
    Combatant

    Scat Daddy*
    Border Dispute

    20
    Instilled Regard

    Arch
    Enhancing

    21
    Snapper Sinclair

    City Zip
    True Addiction

    22
    Reride

    Candy Ride
    Remits

    23
    Dream Baby Dream

    Into Mischief
    Galetoire

  10. At hospital for my pre-op tests and physical therapy class today. Thanks to those who submitted evergreen posts for my surgery outage next week. I have 3 in the hopper, could use one or 2 more.

  14. trevor calls it “the original lie”… is that equivalent to the original sin including a snake, apple and a lot of eves?

  15. Jamie, thank you for that salon article… particularly  this part:

     
    You have studied and written about Donald Trump for three decades. What does the public need to know about his background, to understand his behavior as president?   
     
    Here are the key things people should know about Donald Trump. He comes from a family of criminals: His grandfather made his fortune running whorehouses in Seattle and in the Yukon Territory. His father, Fred, had a business partner named Willie Tomasello, who was an associate of the Gambino crime family. Trump’s father was also investigated by the U.S. Senate for ripping off the government for what would be the equivalent of $36 million in today’s money. Donald got his showmanship from his dad, as well as his comfort with organized criminals.
    I think it is very important for religious Americans to know that Donald Trump says that his personal philosophy of life is revenge. He has called anyone who turns the other cheek — which is a fundamental teaching of Christ in the Sermon on the Mount — a fool, an idiot or a schmuck. Trump is a man who says things that are absolutely contrary to the teachings of the New Testament. He also denigrates Christians. Yet you see all of these ministers endorsing him.
     
    I’ve followed Donald for 30 years. I don’t see any evidence that he has changed, and he certainly hasn’t repented, which is a fundamental Christian obligation.
     
    He is a racist through and through. He has been found in formal judicial proceedings to discriminate against nonwhites in rentals and employment.
     
    It’s important to understand that Trump is aggressively anti-Christian, despite claiming to be one. He is bluntly a racist. Most importantly, he is literally ignorant about almost everything.

  16. All this lawyerly stuff has my head spinning… 🙂

    Once again… I highly recommend David Cay Johnston’s book…  The Making of Donald Trump.  It looks like Avenatti has read it.  Last night on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show he predicted that Trump would resign the presidency.  So far, all his predictions have come true…   please, oh please…  let him be right on this one too.

    ps…   Craig… don’t forget to pick a horse too.

  17. Jamie, since my 1st 2 choices have bit the dust, please put me down for horse # 8 Mendelssohn.

    a nod to playing titania in the college days of dinosaur yore

  19. Poobah, did Dershowitz mention that the multiple pardons could result in at least an implication of obstruction or is that your keen legal mind at work?

  20. Patd

    Great musical accompaniment for your selection.  Midsummer’s Night Dream works for my “Enticed” as well, and at least Bottom when altered was a Democrat

  21. Patd, Poobah, the short answer about pardoning for future offenses seems to be NO>

    Can the President issue a so-called “prospective pardon”? With respect to crimes committed prior to the issuance of the pardon, it appears the President can issue a pardon before any criminal proceeding against the pardon recipient has been initiated. In the 1866 case ex parte Garland, the Supreme Court announced that the pardon power “extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.” Put another way, for the President to issue a pardon, the crime must have already been committed, but the President need not wait for an indictment or other information before granting the pardon. Take, for example, President Gerald Ford’s pardon for former President Richard Nixon, which granted Nixon “a full, free, and absolute pardon . . . for all offenses against the United States which he . . . has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.” Although no indictment had been brought against Nixon, his pardon shielded him from any future federal prosecution based upon any criminal acts he may have committed during the time period stated. A 1995 memo from the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) confirms this understanding by the executive branch, noting that “throughout the Nation’s history, Presidents have asserted the power to issue pardons prior to conviction, and the consistent view of the Attorneys General has been that such pardons have as full an effect as pardons issued after conviction.”

    That came from FAS.ORG, which is not a legal (or illegal) organization, but rather the Federation of American Scientists.  I assume it was written by a lawyer, but here I go potentially making an ass out of u and me.  The emphases are mine.

  23. Oh, and go read this article from Forbes.

    The Supreme Court supplied a reason not to accept a pardon just over 100 years ago, in 1915, writing that a person who accepts such pardon is confessing guilt because a pardon carries an imputation of guilt. In other words, the person offered the pardon actually may reject the pardon from the President because he or she does not wish to admit guilt, even if accepting the pardon would extinguish any penalties related to the alleged crime.  And, a presidential pardon does not erase or expunge the records of a conviction. So, an individual’s criminal history record will reflect both a conviction, if there is one, and the pardon.

    So how would that affect Cohen’s law license? Or would he give a crap?

  25. trump’s pimp could refuse to answer questions. Next, the court could find him in contempt, fine, and jail him. And then trump could pardon his pimp for that refusal to answer.

    That brings us back to the unresolved status quo ante, as cohen could be called to answer questions again. Repeat ad infinitem. Or, pence/Pelosi could simply refuse to pardon the bastard.

  26. I presume that in the seconds before trump either resigns or commits suicide in the So. Florida fuehrerbunker, he will pardon all and sundry in a memorial that proclaims his presidency the greatest of all time, cut short by jealous slobs. He will then exhort his followers to exact revenge upon ‘crooked’ General jefferson beauregard secessions and ‘crooked’ Hillary Clinton.

  27. Cohen’s paperwork and records are more important than his testimony.  Machiavellian Christian Conservatives and Congressional GOP traitors wouldn’t be influenced by any potentially damning testimony by Cohen, because they already realize Trump’s a crook and don’t care, because they’re immoral crooks, too.

     

    Even if Cohen testifies, the facist propaganda machine will undermine his credibility with the conservative rank ‘n’ file in a day and work to trivialize any revelations he might provide.  Talk to a conservative, lately?  That machine works rather well, towards those ends.

  30. It sounds like Ronny Jackson is a mean drunk.  Sure, let’s let him head up one the biggest institutions in the country.

  31. If he eats as much and sleeps as little as is reported, he can’t have a healthy future ahead of him.  That tanning bed won’t do him any favors, either.

    Ok, Blue’s dumb comments bookending mine make mine look even dumber; that’s my cue, people! Have a good day.

  32. politico:

    Asked by ABC’s Jon Karl whether he would consider a pardon for Cohen, the president, who was meeting in the Oval Office with French President Emmanuel Macron, glared and snapped, “Stupid question.”

  36. time:
    President Donald Trump suggested that his own Veterans Affairs nominee, Rear Adm. Ronny Jackson, drop out, arguing that the Senate confirmation process is “too ugly and disgusting.”
     
    Speaking at a joint press conference with French President Emmanuel Macron, Trump said that he was not aware of the “particular allegations” about improper workplace behavior leveled at Jackson, who currently serves as the White House physician, but he said he suggested Jackson consider withdrawing.
     
    “I said to Dr. Jackson, ‘What do you need it for?’” he said. “I don’t want to put a man through a process like this. It’s too ugly and disgusting.” He said that Jackson will be making the choice on whether to drop out: “It’s totally his decision,” Trump said.
    [….continues…]

  37. business insider:

    The Koch network is ramping up their push for Congress to fix DACA

    Koch-backed groups sent a letter to congressional leaders urging them to find a permanent solution for recipients of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.
    The letter comes on the heels of a broader campaign to find a fix for DACA, including a seven-figure ad campaign.

    […continues…]

     

    one of the LIBRE Initiative ads:

  38. Not being too informed about mob organizations and how the prosecutors send them to prison I am often not understanding a lot of the discussion about how Mueller is taking SFB and his cult down.  Some is easy, such as start at the perimeter and peel them off like an onion.  Some makes sense, such as flipping someone to have them dump out a lot of information.  But after that I am lost.

    As for security, I am very familiar.  After what SFB did to the Israel security forces if I was a prosecutro, I would have had him sitting in Florence for a long time.  But, he apparently declassified himself.  Which does not work as he was not the control, Israeli IC is. So he would still be sitting in maximum security in Florence.  HRC had all sorts of crap on her email server, but any classification of those took place after those were hacked and removed.  Right now the orange moron is using a simple, unhardened Android phone, to send his gaseous thoughts out on Twitter.  For foreign IC that is like sending his farts out in public.  He is not only “hacked” he is broadcasting in the clear.  And, they can pick up enough to spoof him, to send stuff out that is under his twitter account.

     

  39. “I’m Just A Bill…”  The writer of Schoolhouse Rock has passed. RIP & thanks for great Saturday mornings.

  40. “Conjunction Junction, what’s your function?”

    A bazillion years after I heard it & I still remember.

    The ’70s were kooky but creative. Education was fun. Thank You to the teachers & artists who got this.

  41. “And the shot heard ‘round the world, was the start of the Revolution…”

    I have a DVD somewhere, after I gave the VHS to someone’s kid.

    When the media put good, useful  stuff into young minds instead of garbage.

  43. Those handshakes between Macron & Donny are hilarious.  It looks like Macron has a bit of aggression to get out.

    Picking dandruff, real or imaginary, off of a visiting, foreign dignitary…ay-yi…gramps.

  44. Ambien.

    Maybe that explains the current administration; they’re sleep walking.

    Dr. Ronny is the new Dr. Nick?

  46. I think she does exactly what ahe’s told to do, no more, no less.

    she walked in, eyes wide open.

  50. It really is sublimely hilarious that he went and “played golf” while she went and hob-nobbed with world renowned statesmen and states-ladies.

    “Donald is golfing like madman right now.”

  57. John Prine is on tour, from the looks of his picture on his latest album, Tree of Forgiveness,  he doesn’t have many more. For us summer looks busy so we bought tickets for Nashville at the Ryman in October. Part of the package was a CD of his latest album. Just got it in the mail today. Nothing like new stuff from John Prine. Maybe by October I can sing along . I’ve been enjoying it  all afternoon.

  59. Jack, gotta see if John’s coming nearby. I’ll add him to the last tour tour I’m taking. He can join B.B., Clapton and Dylan on the list. I also saw McCartney and Billy Joel, but hey, they ain’t quitting anytime soon.

    Pittsburgh, July 20. Just saw a recent pic. Hope he makes it that long.

  60. lol

    Just a small sample of the you tube surfing to night

    My love of music was from my father, not high brow but if it had a beat you could dance too……………

    Jack

  61. Pogo

    We are all getting old but  John seems to age well.

    I’m enjoying the CD I got in the  mail today.

    If the above sentence doesn’t age you I don’t know what will.

    Jack

  62. Now the crooked swamp builder says that king kim is an honorable man. If there were any justice in this world, a hurricane from Puerto Rico would fly a Wurlitzer piano to Marla Ego and dump it on the Orange Reptile at the 17th hole, neatly dividing him into 88 slices of steaming bullshit.

    I am beginning to feel oppressed and persecuted just living in the same galaxy with His Creepiness. Can I sue the millionaire for mental anguish ?

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