Hostages Returned, So What

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    North Korea takes hostages and returns them for an often unstated benefit, allowing presidents to boast about their diplomatic skill. It is wonderful to see hostages return to their homes, but for us, it’s a sign of weakness, not strength.

    “This is a long standing practice of the North Koreans, to have a small stable of hostages that they can use as bargaining chips or brownie points, depending on the situation. Which is kind of what they did here.” — James Clapper, former Director of National Intelligence

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72 thoughts on “Hostages Returned, So What”

  3. Remember Otto Warmbier!

    Remember Kim’s brother who was poisoned in an airport!

    Kim is a tyrant, a kidnapper, a torturer,  a serial killer, a self-serving monster!

    I’m glad these three men are home, but they should never have been held in the first place.  Releasing them should get that fat, little turd absolutely nothing.

    Certainly, he doesn’t deserve gratitude when he perpetuated the crime of taking them as hostages and subjecting them to who knows what, in the first place.

  4. ins and outs of hostages in tales of a nuke deal and no nuke deal

     

    ny times:  Relatives of American Prisoners in Iran Ask: What Now?

     
    Relatives of Americans imprisoned in Iran implored the Trump administration on Wednesday not to forget their loved ones, whose fates may have just become murkier now that the United States has quit the nuclear accord.
    Their angst was further complicated by word that three Americans incarcerated by North Korea had been freed. While happy over that news, some worried that President Trump’s decision to abandon the nuclear agreement would antagonize the Iranian authorities, dimming any prospects of prisoner releases in Iran anytime soon.
    Mr. Trump’s success at securing the freedom of North Korea’s prisoners, and failure so far to do the same in Iran, underscored the complexities of the estranged American relations with the two countries, which have vexed successive White House administrations for decades.
    At least five American citizens — four of them dual citizens of the United States and Iran — are known to be incarcerated in Iranian prisons.
    [….]
    Iran is known to be holding Baquer Namazi, 81, a former Unicef diplomat; his son Siamak, 46, a business consultant; Karan Vafadari, 56, an art dealer; Morad Tahbaz, 62, an environmental activist; and Xiyue Wang, 37, a Princeton University graduate student.
    A sixth American, Robert A. Levinson, a former F.B.I. agent, has been missing in Iran since 2007. Members of his family, who hold out hope that he is alive, say he would be 70.
    [..continues..]

     

  5. “I’d like her to define American morals”

    KGC/PatD,  I’m not unalterably opposed to Haspel, I just like the word “I”.  Be responsible for your words and actions good or bad when asked.  Don’t hide behind some collective group.  That smacks way too much of just following orders.  We have all committed acts or said things that have shame of some kind attached to them.  Live, learn and make amends as far as possible, but take responsibility.

    Trump could definitely come up with worse of course.  I would just prefer that Haspel be more honest before handing her one of the most powerful agencies of the nation.

     

  6. Jamie, she did use “I” now and then as you can see with this headline at npr:

    ‘I Don’t Believe That Torture Works,’ CIA Nominee Gina Haspel Tells Senators

  8. SJ, funny, but I read South and thought North.  What a maroon.  (Craig can be excused – I’m sure his thought processes are dulled by the pain meds)

  9. Years ago I was being interviewed by a newspaper. I was asked about my use of I and We. I responded by saying that things that went really well belong to “We”, the people of our organization. On the other hand, “I” own the things that don’t meet expectations. They published that explanation.

  10. sj & pogo, I blame it on the Russians.  even drugged, our fearless leader with years of editing experience under all kinds of conditions wouldn’t have done that…. would he?

    that pesky putie and his trolls no doubt about it

  11. trumpence (junta) continues to use pr antics, tableaus and sight gags to kill the blue wave machine and continue the phony crusader path.    The prisoner release is used to smash optics of a free press.  What used to be transparency in government?  Sneaky humans making backroom deals for optics.  Meanwhile, the doors on America are closing, white people are rejoicing in a phony economy while the rest of America is left behind, no food, no healthcare.

    The generals are getting pushed-out of the junta.   mustache runs trump and the lawyers from fox continue to do what they do best — out spies.   And I did not see a question to gina-h why the cia, pompeo, did not stop the prez from using outdated intel from bibi, the crook?  To make his withdrawal based on phony intel like iraq ?(he makes it sound like sex — I will not seed any deal Obama made!)  The push against Obama’s legacy continues.  The federalist rag has an awful opine about Obama.   These guys may try to erase his presidency, but history will catch-up to them…maybe not in time for damage control.

  12. Jamie, perhaps she was employing the same usage as our wise friend flatus noted above about I & we.  I count 6 “I”s to 2 “we”s in the following excerpt from that npr piece for example:

    “Senator, my moral compass is strong,” Haspel said. “I would not allow CIA to undertake activity that I thought was immoral — even if it was technically legal. I would absolutely not permit it.” Prodded again by Warner, Haspel said, “No. I believe that CIA must undertake activities that are consistent with American values.”
     
    After Haspel said that she wouldn’t have the agency do anything she viewed as immoral, she was pressed by Harris to say whether she viewed the CIA’s interrogation program as immoral.
     
    Harris wanted a yes-or-no answer — a common, if often unfulfilled request, in congressional hearings. Haspel refused to give one, saying the CIA staff had worked “given the legal tools that we were authorized to use.”
     
    In what became a back-and-forth exchange, Harris asked, “Do you believe in hindsight that those techniques were immoral?”
     
    “Senator, what I believe sitting here today is, I support the higher moral standard we have decided to hold ourselves to,” Haspel said.
     

  13. Flatus, you are a stand up man. Which leads to the next sentence ….

    Isn’t it hypocritical for a number of Senators to be shocked SHOCKED at possible uses of torture when many of them turned into Cheney/Bush lapdogs during the days of ya know, 9/11? Who wanted to be smeared as a terrorist enabler? Wear your flag pin.

  15. From the 2014 Economist — why s. korea is a distinctly christian nation.

    The seeds thus sown incubated under Japan’s rule (1910-45), and have sprouted wildly since. The trauma of Japanese conquest eroded faith in Confucian or Buddhist traditions: Koreans could relate to Israel’s sufferings in the Old Testament (no Chosen jokes, please). Yet by 1945 only 2% of Koreans were Christian. The recent explosive growth accompanied that of the economy. Cue Weber’s Protestant ethic: for the conservative majority, worldly success connotes God’s blessing. But Korea also bred its own liberation theology (minjung)

    Today 23% of South Koreans are Buddhist and 46% profess no belief. Does this represent scope for Christianity’s growth, or incipient secularisation? In 2012 only 52% claimed to be religious, down from 56% in 2005. But the world is now their oyster: only America sends more missionaries. Korean Christians have been seized in Afghanistan, beheaded in Iraq and stopped by their embassy from hymn-singing in Yemen.

  16. President Deals spite-shredded the Iran Deal to maybe screw Obama? Or punish Muslims? Maybe some combo of both? But definitely not to make us safer.

  17. pence and evangelicals rejoice at prisoner release of Christians.  This release is not for the average American, but trump’s base.  Getting poll numbers to match the stolen primary elections still going on.  The ruskies have not stopped their election attacks.  Dems are dropping like flies — Md. gov candidate dead of heart attack.

    The repugs will use their base and their one outlet news source, faux news to smear election results all over the country.   Dems are scattered across many media outlets and venues…no cohesion.   It is going to be a bloody fight for dems…wave machine is broken by the goppers as corruption and God go hand-in-hand to create an isolationist’s heaven on earth called the US of AA.

  18. @MichaelAvenatti

     

    Hey @foxnews – instead of having your pathetic surrogates attack me and my client without us present, why don’t you instruct your No. 1 guy @seanhannity to stop dodging me and debate me on his show? Why are you avoiding this? #basta

    12:43 AM – May 8, 2018

    @MichaelAvenatti

     

    I think it would be very helpful for the public to witness a discussion between Mr. Giuliani and me concerning the facts of the case, etc. I am willing to participate on any network provided both sides are provided a fair shake. I am also willing to do it on 12-hrs notice.

    12:45 PM – May 8, 2018

     

  19. bw, so very sorry to hear the news about kamenetz.  this from the story you linked speaks volumes about him:

     
    For a class assignment, he volunteered for Hubert Humphrey’s unsuccessful presidential campaign in 1972. Kamenetz could still recite a famous Humphrey quote from 1977: “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those in the shadows of life — the sick, the needy and the handicapped.”
    “I found it inspiring,” Kamenetz said. “That is the purpose of government. Those are the goals I’ve always tried to achieve when making decisions.”
     

  21. Craig, the post is excellent, it was just a typo!

    pence, white shadow prez, says it’s time for Mr. Mueller to wrap-up his investigation.  Way to go, mike!!

    “Our administration has been fully cooperating with the special counsel, and we’ll continue to,” Pence said. “What I think is that it’s been about a year since this investigation began. Our administration has provided more than a million documents. We’ve fully cooperated in it, and in the interest of the country, I think it’s time to wrap it up.”

  22. bw, joe on mojo this morn made hay with that pence clip juxtaposing it with almost exact words (for sure same sentiment) that Nixon used 9 months before his resignation and  8 months before the tapes were discovered.  who knows when the next shoe will drop or the next oligarch.

  23. The ‘I’ war begins in the ME — israel vs. iran.  Place your bets!   The night of trump withdrawal from the iranian deal?  bibi sent rockets into syria (I did link a story) which they never confirm.  Presto!  iranians strike back…war begins.   Oil and peace never mix well and more importantly, christians may finally get their promised land under trumpence.

  28. I for one – and I do not support Haspel even though she may be the lesser of evils that SFB could have put up for that post – think that her use of “we” in the above excerpt is appropriate if her intent with the “we” usage was to refer to the CIA. Certainly in the first instance it was appropriate.  In the second it may or may not be, but it doesn’t strike me as the royal we in that context.

  30. KGC,

    I believe there was a point when it became apparent that the stress on the people involved in interrogations out-rode the diminishing value of any intelligence gains.

  31. The films/tapes. I would have destroyed them had they been in my custody. In this line of work (intelligence operations) leadership bears a continuing responsibility for those individuals performing duties that pin life-long targets on their backs. There is no way in hell that I would/will increase the real risk to my people who performed within the scope of their assignments merely to gratify critters that want a picture to display when a faithful written narrative will suffice.

  32. “I don’t believe it works.”  But, she has no problem with it, so that does not give me warm fuzzies.

    I hope the Senators listen to McCain on this one.

  35. might be useful to debate (in poli sci classes if not in the hallowed halls of critterville) pro and con whether directors of the cia should never come fresh from the ranks of that agency.   similar to DoD ban on active military head unless formally waived.  likewise the fbi.   there’s a philosophical argument for you.  ensuring “civilian” control so to speak.

  36. People under hard interrogation will generally say whatever they can to stop the pain. Name, rank, service number, and date of birth won’t cut it. Saying, “I just arrived here last week. I was in Puerto Rico working on hurricane relief before I came here. How can I help you??” might work.

  37. renee, that’s like thanking jeffrey Dahmer for not having taken a bite on release of one of his captives

  38. wapo:
    Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee on Thursday released about 3,500 Facebook ads purchased by Russian agents around the 2016 presidential election on issues from immigration to gun control, a reminder of the complexity of the manipulation that Facebook is trying to contain ahead of the midterm elections.
     
    The ads, from mid-2015 to mid-2017, illustrate the extent to which Kremlin-aligned forces sought to stoke social, cultural and political unrest on one of the Web’s most powerful platforms. With the help of Facebook’s targeting tools, they delivered their disinformation to narrow categories of users – from black or gay users to fans of Fox News.
     
    In doing so, Russia’s online army reached at least 146 million people on Facebook and Instagram, its photo-sharing service, with ads and other posts. ….
    […]
    In total, ads purchased by agents tied to the Kremlin-backed IRA reached about 10 million U.S. users around the 2016 presidential election, according to Facebook’s own estimates. But the ads are only part of the story: They sought to hook American voters into clicking “Like” or following Russia-created Facebook profiles and pages, which published organic content, like status updates, videos and other posts, which would later appear in users’ News Feeds.
    Facebook previously estimated that Russia-tied profiles and pages generated 80,000 pieces of organic content around the 2016 election – either directly in their news feeds or because their friends had shared it. Another 20 million saw IRA-generated content on Instagram. House lawmakers did not make organic posts on Facebook or Instagram available Thursday.
    [….]
    The documents released Thursday also reflect that Russian agents continued advertising on Facebook well after the presidential election. Until August 2017, Russian-aligned pages and profiles advertised their opposition to immigrants, targeting a range of users, including those who appear to like Fox News. They marketed a page called Born Liberal to likely supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the data show, an ad that had more than 49,000 impressions into 2017. Together, the ads affirmed the fears of some lawmakers, including Republicans, that Russian agents have continued to try to influence U.S. politics even after the 2016 election.
     
    Russian agents also had created thousands of accounts on Twitter, and in January, the company revealed that it discovered more than 50,000 automated accounts, or bots, with links to Russia. It notified about 1.7 million users that they had fallen victim to Russian propaganda during the 2016 election. And Google discovered a small number of ads purchased by the IRA on YouTube, its video platform.

  39. ny times:

    Giuliani Resigns From Law Firm Amid Tensions Over Comments About Trump
    President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, abruptly resigned from his law firm after weeks of tensions over his public comments.
    Mr. Giuliani took a leave of absence last month from the firm, Greenberg Traurig, one of the nation’s largest, to represent Mr. Trump. But the firm announced on Thursday that he no longer worked there as of a day earlier.
    [….]

    Firm partners had chafed over Mr. Giuliani’s public comments about payments that another of Mr. Trump’s lawyers, Michael D. Cohen, made to secure the silence of a pornographic film actress who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump. The president has denied her allegations. In interviews, Mr. Giuliani suggested that such payments were common at his firm.

    [….]

    Mr. Giuliani’s colleagues at Greenberg Traurig had bristled in late 2016 when Mr. Giuliani played an aggressive, pit bull-style surrogate role on Mr. Trump’s behalf during the presidential campaign. After Mr. Trump’s inauguration, when it became clear that Mr. Giuliani would not get the job he wanted — secretary of state — he kept a relatively low profile at the request of his colleagues.

    […]
    Many of the country’s top law firms have resisted the prospect of their lawyers representing the president. As Mr. Trump tried to rebuild his legal team this spring, firms told their top lawyers that if they wanted to represent the president they would have to resign.
    The firms were concerned about Mr. Trump’s longstanding history of ignoring his lawyers’ advice and apparent failure to pay his bills, and backlash from employees who did not want to work for a firm that was representing Mr. Trump.

  40. More on the white shadow prez, pence, from george will —

    “His is the authentic voice of today’s lickspittle Republican Party, he clarifies this year’s elections: Vote Republican to ratify groveling as governing.”

    “Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic. Pence is what he has chosen to be, which is horrifying.”

     

  42. I just came home from early primary voting.  This is the first primary in New Mexico I have ever voted in.  I was an independent for the past 25 years and not allowed to vote in party primaries.  Back in 2008 during the primaries, I drove dems to the polls which at that time held their primary at a different date than the repugs.  Today, all parties hold their primaries on the same date.  Dems, libertarians and repugs, only get a ballot.   I did not have to show id, but I did have to give my name, party affiliation, birth year, address and sign for a ballot.  I filled-out a paper ballot (start of the trail) and fed my sheet into an electronic tabulator.   My Senator, Heinrich, who faces no opposition from other dems should be able to keep his seat.  Remain blue.   Dems may get a house seat as pearce (repug) is running for gov.  3 dems are vying for the dem candidacy for gov.  All are quality.

  44. Gee, I hate to see that Rudy lost his job…:-)

    Greenburg Trautwig has a checkered history – anyone remember Jack Abramoff?  He is one of quite a few Greenburg partners who have been implicated in lobbying and securities related legal issues.  I’m guessing Greenburg could see the storm coming with Rudy’s comments about payments like the Stormy Daniels silencio payment of Cohen being common at his firm.

  45. Why singapore? ‘kim/trump it goes nuclear’ summit to cost taxpayers a bundle and the trumpence junta will bring the entire extended family to the event, move over davos into the infinity pool.

    This link is from oct. 2017 hospitality (travel and culture) blog.

  47. Poobah, I never could get the hang of the walker or cane – i was much more comfortable using crutches – went from 2 to 1 then none.  If you feel like you’re ready you probably are.

  50. Just to the north of Singapore where they were one country until 1965, Malaysia, ushers in a new era.

    Malaysians woke up Thursday to an unexpected new world of possibilities. Despite manipulating the electoral process, attempting to muzzle critics with a “fake news” law and stoking racial and religious divisions, Prime Minister Najib Razak lost Wednesday’s election, as Malaysian voters ousted the ruling coalition for the first since time since the country’s independence from Britain.

    The surprising result is rare good news for supporters of liberal democracy elsewhere around Southeast Asia, a region that has mostly been lurching toward autocracy, violence and religious fundamentalismin recent years. In the Philippines, President Rodrigo Duterte has overseen a “war on drugs” that has taken thousands of lives, as well as a press crackdown. Indonesia, Southeast Asia’s largest country, has taken steps toward Islamic conservatism, and Burma (also known as Myanmar) has been host to an explosion of anti-Muslim violence.

    Although Malaysia was never a bastion of free speech, Najib’s government passed a controversial “fake news” law this year that was widely seen as a way to limit criticism before campaigning started. Perhaps predictably, Mahathir was soon targeted by the law. Malaysia’s electoral commission also redrew the country’s districts in an aggressive gerrymandering exercise that clearly benefited Najib, and the government even temporarily dissolved Mahathir’s party in April.

  51. Hope springs eternal — the best line from he wapo link above?

     “All the cheating was overpowered by a tsunami of voters,”

  52. is there a trump hotel in Singapore?  if not, has the twit been promised one  in exchange for having nuke talk there?

  56. I thought the fact that Mueller had questioned the Cohen scammed-companies last November is interesting

  58. I could almost begin to approve of george will. However, his theft made reagan president, and that crime is awfully hard to forgive. Another gem from Ms Wino that bears repeating – often :
    More on the white shadow prez, pence, from george will —
    “His is the authentic voice of today’s lickspittle Republican Party, he clarifies this year’s elections: Vote Republican to ratify groveling as governing.”
    “Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic. Pence is what he has chosen to be, which is horrifying.”
     

  59. That George Will piece on Trumpsky called out Pence, too, for signing on to what he thought was a losing campaign & then giving comfort to the enemy when the Cheeto won, even though Pence always stood in opposition to him with regard to politics and lifestyle.

     

  60. To the pro-torture ghoul on Fox who slammed McCain, saying torture worked on him…I hope karma bites you, and those for whom you are shilling, in the collective ass so hard!

  61. I have never heard the epithet that that horrible man used to describe McCain (and I’m not going to repeat it here)…never in all of McCain’s years in the public arena have I heard it…and it sounds EXACTLY like something Trumpsky would say.

  62. Anyone who slams McCain for his military service must hate veterans.  Trumpsky and Fox  News hate our vets!

  63. I was white hot angry with McCain for decades.

    Like g. will, the Senator is kinda growing on me now. Am I mellowing out, or are those two improving with age ?

  64. There is a difference between making policy  (and running mate) decisions you hate and his military service.

    Plus, compared to the rest of the crop were dealing with…

  65. McCain, he should have stayed the maverick.  Not treated very well by the Bushes and SFB’s behavior is appalling as well.

  66. Sadly, when McCain passes, what is left of the gop will be eaten by the piranha freedom caucus.

  68.  

    the guardian:
    ‘Vote for the homo, not the Cuomo’: the best and worst political slogans
    In March, Cynthia Nixon announced that she was running for governor of New York against Andrew Cuomo, and reactions ranged from the incredulous to the insulting.
    Most memorably, former New York City council speaker Christine Quinn labelled her “an unqualified lesbian”, which was intended to be derogatory. Nixon, however, enthusiastically embraced the moniker. Indeed, she’s even selling “Unqualified Lesbian” merchandise to help fund her campaign.
    While Nixon’s queer credentials may not impress Quinn very much, the former Sex and the City actor has proved to have quite the knack for sapphic slogans. At Tuesday’s legislative correspondents association dinner in Albany, Nixon gave a speech where she jokingly declared that her new campaign message was “Vote for the homo, not for the Cuomo.”
     
    Nixon quipped: “Andrew Cuomo is known for dirty politics but I have to give credit where it’s due. His history of cutthroat campaigns helped inspire my campaign’s new slogan.”
    [….continues including this video….]

     

    NYS governor candidate Cynthia Nixon’s rebuttal at the 118th Legislative Correspondents Association show in Albany.

  69. I hope Cynthia Nixon wins.  I realize she has no experience governing but I think she will be quick to catch on and surround herself with good people.

  70. cuomo’s policies regarding housing poor people while he was the ‘housing czar’ made the problem of homelessness much worse. The majority of homeless people under his watch changed from adult males to mom’s with kids, while he shoveled money to suburban developers.

    Go, NIXON !

  71. Yeah, Katherine Graham Cracker & xrepublican!

    This Nixon’s the One.

    I’m doing what I can to support her as she we New Yorkers fight the Cuomo a-hole money machine.

     

  72. the hill:
    A White House official called Meghan McCain on Thursday to apologize after she mocked Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) cancer diagnosis during a meeting earlier in the day, a source told The Hill.
    The Hill first reported Thursday that special assistant Kelly Sadler brushed off the senator’s opposition to President Trump’s nominee for CIA director, Gina Haspel, saying, “It doesn’t matter, he’s dying anyway.”
    Sadler later called the senator’s daughter Meghan McCain to apologize, according to a source.
    Meghan McCain has not publicly responded to the comments herself, beyond retweeting her mother, Cindy, who chided the White House official.
    “May I remind you my husband has a family, 7 children and 5 grandchildren,” Cindy McCain wrote
    Meghan McCain has not publicly responded to the comments herself, beyond retweeting her mother, Cindy, who chided the White House official.
    “May I remind you my husband has a family, 7 children and 5 grandchildren,” Cindy McCain wrote
     

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