Funny how liberals so quickly diminished harassment claims against Al Franken, an obvious hypocrisy considering their immediate embrace of GOP accusers. Likewise, look at how feminist leaders and so many Democrats pretended Bill Clinton’s behavior was OK. Hypocrisy on both sides sure makes it tougher to hold anyone accountable.
Bill Clinton Was A Creep Too
boss, not surprising, merely normal human reaction in play. whether being outraged, attacking, excusing, ignoring, or even enjoying the misbehavior most times depends on the attractiveness and the relationship of the sinner. thus cary grant & jack kennedy types, your own child or pet, accepted/expected/beloved eccentricities of “artistes” or past history can mitigate your response.
how does one explain those family value sorts out there stoning the longtime married Clinton yet taking to their bosom the twice divorced/3 time married trump (both equally guilty of adultery and lying)?  and if rep. anthony weiner had to resign for texting turgid bvd pictures why aren’t the same folks calling for rep. joe barton’s resignation for his online nudity?
a revered old saying:
“our shit don’t stink as bad as yours”
and as to al: is there no room for weighing the seriousness of, distinguishing the depravity, and determining whether his are venial or mortal sins?
it’s not like he abused minors or employees
Awaiting the morning glory on a black Friday.  The feast with the trump supporters was horrid and we imposed a drinking ban on the day pretending and blaming the NSAIDs instead of a drunken deplorable. My BIL, upset my brother with his cursing talk of the NFL and players even though we had placed a ‘no politics’ talk ban.  My sis and her hubby are willfully ignorant and have dug in like chiggers on the bloated president’s skin.  It will be another year before we break bread with them.  It makes me sick to my stomach to see them and listen to their filth.  More victims of hypnotic faux news.
(sturge, thanks, corrected the wilson/barton thing on yesterday’s comment)
Yes, many men and a few women are very creepy about sex and their chosen victims, but it is easy for me to draw the distinction between age and adult consent.  Many of the adult women can fend-off a wandering hand, but underage humans? Off limits. Much of my sexual abuse started from men outside of family at the age of 11. I knew to tell my parents, call the cops, etc. Many young humans are not aware or trained to get away from adults who prey on the youngster. But older women? They have a hand to swat away a butt cupper, hiney handler, etc.  They can scream, make it known that they are being attacked or inappropriately touched.  Make a ‘stink’ in public, not let the creep continue.  Remember, even mel slapped-away the pging potus’s hand.
As for affairs?  A whole new ball game in the workplace. Look at scottie hughes — affairs of the heart and genitals turn into rape and accusations. Ugh…things we do not want to know.
I wonder if all of this is now going to desensitize people as to the conduct of their elected officials. I mean, if everyone has a few of “their guys/gals” in politics with allegations against them – let the justification begin.
The only part that really bothers me is the blending of all of these allegations into one stream. Having an affair with on wife is completely different than stalking minors or sexual assault.
During the period when W. Clinton and his sexual attacks became clear, one of the biggest questions was “why does she stay with him?” As more and more came out many of us were outraged and felt for Hillary. What kept Bill in office was a different time and different players (for the most part). But, SFB is worse, and there is no movement to toss him out for being a sexual predator.
What shopping will you do on this day? Sometime I need to go shopping for cat and dog foods. Both bags are empty and I do not care to have them getting the BBQ sauce out tonight. So that is my shopping for the day.
Discussing this with David this morning. He thinks the consensual nature of Clinton’s affairs might give him a pass even in today’s environment. Although Paula Jones and Juanita Broderick claimed unwanted advances.
Have to agree with David on this one. No one thought Clinton was anything but the regulation hound dog of the time period. The one thing that makes Paula & Juanita suspect is that not only did ol’ Bill have so many willing volunteers and engaged in long term shenanigans, but the one claiming rape and the other claiming exposure and pressure were both cleaned up, supported, and presented by the right wing during the election. Paula has since retracted a lot claiming right wing use and abuse and Juanita has several different versions of her story.
He certainly wasn’t an admirable credit to his sex. His treatment of his wife just because he could get away with it was awful. She chose to stay with him, raise their child and continue in service to the country. Today after 40 years of marriage, they seem to still like each other which is hard to achieve for any couple.
at least al and bill have admitted their wrong doing and have apologized publically. has trump even come close to admitting poor judgement and bad behavior, apologizing to or seeking forgiveness from his sexual harassment victims?
after a couple of earlier apologies here’s the latest from al reported by nbcnews:
Democratic Sen. Al Franken apologized on Thanksgiving Day in the wake of allegations of unwanted sexual contact, groping or touching made by several women, and pledged to work to regain the trust of his constituents.
Franken, D-Minn., said that from some of the stories he’s learned that “I crossed a line for some women” and “I feel terribly that I’ve made some women feel badly and for that I am so sorry.”
The latest apology comes after two women, who were quoted anonymously, told the Huffington Post that Franken had touched them inappropriately on the buttocks in the past, one of whom said it occurred while they posed for a photo. NBC News has not verified the report.
“I’ve met tens of thousands of people and taken thousands of photographs, often in crowded and chaotic situations. I’m a warm person; I hug people,” Franken said in the statement. “I’ve learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters, I crossed a line for some women — and I know that any number is too many.”
“Some women have found my greetings or embraces for a hug or photo inappropriate, and I respect their feelings about that,” Franken said in the statement. “I’ve thought a lot in recent days about how that could happen, and recognize that I need to be much more careful and sensitive in these situations.”
and bill
perhaps we need an American rev tutu to come up with a truth & reconciliation effort to heal our ever growing divisiveness. here’s what he said about forgiveness:
To forgive is not just to be altruistic. It is the best form of self-interest. It is also a process that does not exclude hatred and anger. These emotions are all part of being human. You should never hate yourself for hating others who do terrible things: the depth of your love is shown by the extent of your anger.
However, when I talk of forgiveness I mean the belief that you can come out the other side a better person. A better person than the one being consumed by anger and hatred. Remaining in that state locks you in a state of victimhood, making you almost dependent on the perpetrator. If you can find it in yourself to forgive then you are no longer chained to the perpetrator. You can move on, and you can even help the perpetrator to become a better person too.
But the process of forgiveness also requires acknowledgement on the part of the perpetrator that they have committed an offence. I don’t like to talk about my own personal experience of forgiveness, although some of the things people have tried to do to my family are close to what I’d consider unforgivable. I don’t talk about these things because I have witnessed so many incredible people who, despite experiencing atrocity and tragedy, have come to a point in their lives where they are able to forgive. Take the Craddock Four, for example. The police ambushed their car, killed them in the most gruesome manner, set their car alight. When, at a TRC hearing, the teenage daughter of one of the victims was asked: would you be able to forgive the people who did this to you and your family? She answered, “We would like to forgive, but we would just like to know who to forgive.” How fantastic to see this young girl, still human despite all efforts to dehumanise her
Jamie, can’t disagree with that. I suppose this is pointless rehashing but seems to me there were three junctures where the “sex” factor might have changed history if they occurred today.
1) Would the late-breaking Gennifer Flowers story deny Clinton the comeback “victory” in New Hampshire, and therefore possibly the nomination?
2) Would the wider known scope of his behavior have denied his reelection?
3) Today, would he lose the Senate impeachment vote? (He won the perjury vote 55-45, but the obstruction-of-justice outcome was evenly split, 50-50).
At the time I thought, and wrote, that Flowers was enough to sink Clinton’s campaign. Overcoming that really surprised me. In today’s world I think an unknown, as he was then, would sink. Although maybe Hillary’s defense in their “60 Minutes” Super Bowl appearance might even work today.
Against Bob Dole, I think Clinton would still win. I don’t think he would survive the Senate vote in today’s climate. Playing this game on out, imagine if Gore ran against Bush as President in 2000, he would probably win — and there never would have been a President W or the Iraq War. Heck, Gore might have even paid attention to CIA warnings and prevented 9/11.
“if they occurred today”
craig, if? something on that same order did occur and a well-known sexual harasser was elected. as for an impeachment and trial… it’s possible the twit will survive that too.
why waste time rehashing the past when we have on-going scandals here and now?
they’re continuing to come out of the woodwork. just wish all those the twit settled with would be able to speak up….. particularly the one victimized when 13 yo.
from huffpo:
Actor Billy Baldwin snapped back at a tweet about Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) on Thursday, saying that President Donald Trump once “hit on my wife” at a Manhattan hotel. Baldwin also slammed the president as a “5th degree black belt when it comes to sexual impropriety allegations.”
Baldwin jumped into the fray after the president’s son Donald Trump Jr. tweeted about new allegations against Franken. He was referring to a HuffPost report published Wednesday in which two other women stepped forward saying Franken inappropriately touched them on the butt. That makes the third and fourth such allegations against Franken in the past week.
Baldwin responded with the quip about the president’s “black belt” status, adding that Trump once “crashed” a Baldwin party at the Plaza Hotel and “hit on my wife” until she “showed his fat ass the door.”
PatD, yeah i know it’s pointless, just in the mood this morning for a stroll through history. I always thought Bill’s behavior was inexcusable, especially when it continued as president with an intern in the White House. He should have been thrown out of office.
There is a long, long list of @GOP infractions in the sexual area. Most are along the line of a mistress here or there, but some quite ugly. The right wing does seem to have a predilection for the more twisted than a Slinky division.  Even St. Ronnie got Nancy pregnant before they headed for wedded bliss.
When it comes to Franken, I wish the worst thing any man had done to me was an overenthusiastic hug and butt slap or tickle. Even the current Prez does that to his daughter.
I’m glad all of this is coming out in the open, but there are degrees of behavior unless you want to make it against the law for any male of the species to run for political office for a few hundred years.
The problem with the Dems killing off one of theirs to match a republican headline is continuing the false equivalency made by the media to be “fair and balanced”. It is not fair, it is not balanced and the attempt to keep up with right wing media, the major news organizations, is always going to cost the Dems. Cases need to be evaluated individually, not compared. A pedophile is not the same as a hand on the butt or two. A serial philanderer is not the same as a serial sexual assault predator.
Trying to equivalence JFK with SFB is a non-starter. They are not the same. The temptation to equivalence Jackie to Hillary to the three SFB wives is tempting, all were the wife cheated on. But, I would prefer to keep each separate due to era’s and what the husbands were doing.
I know it sounds a bit as if we are giving a pass to the “charming rogues”, but that isn’t the case. Virtually any woman can give you chapter and verse of one or more hideous events that caused actual embarrassment, job loss, or physical harm. Compared to those, the guys who come on a little stronger than they should, cheated on their wives, or just acted as if they read Playboy once too often, are almost endearing. We get pissed off at them, but don’t actually want them shot at sunrise or staked out on an ant hill covered in honey. The others should go slowly and painfully as possible.
That’s why you have to be a Buddhist about these charges no one is above them
Clinton is a creep but so was JFKÂ Mimi Alford
What BB said.
al gets no “pass”, he fessed up and apologized as anyone should.but in addition to all the statements to Al’s defense it’s just hard for me to imagine him as a sexual predator, or as a “hound dog”.
Clinton……..certainly did not get a pass……..the blowjob heard round the world…….sank Gore, and gave us Bushie, he’ll have to live with that…….but there again, big difference between a consenting blowjob and sexual predation.
(Your Honor……Sturgeone said blah blah blah….)
And Hillary had to apologize to Tammy Wynette.
But followed her advice
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2KP9fYZUWA
Although, this, in my estimation, is the definitive version
Steve Cropper, Matt “Guitar” Murphy, Blue Lou, Booker T, Duck Dunn……..whatta band……
You ain’t played bar music if you never played behind chicken wire.
TFBÂ Â – I am tired of some people getting a pass for bad behavior because they are handsome men or rich and powerful men or whatever excuse people have or giving them the pass
JFK was a hound dog and EVERYONE knew. But he did not prey on children.
Bad sexual behavior can cover a lot of ground and quite a lot of it is not illegal
Jamie, totally agree with separating the wheat from the chaff.   We get pissed off at them, but don’t actually want them shot at sunrise or staked out on an ant hill covered in honey. maybe some tough public pounding and kneading, even turning up the heat for a little bread is called for, but don’t throw them out.
now as for the real trash, the power-trippers, the violent and the predatory…yes they should go slowly and painfully as possible. virtually deballed and heads rolled.
heard bill krystol the other day suggest one solution is to only elect women for awhile, cleanout the malefactors and start from scratch.
he’s surprisingly making some compassionate sounds of late. like this from the hill:
Conservative commentator Bill Kristol said that President Trump and Senate candidate Roy Moore (R-Ala.) are bringing out his “inner liberal.”
In a tweet Tuesday afternoon, the founder and editor-at-large of The Weekly Standard suggested that his long-held views are being tested by Trump and Moore, as well as a growing number of sexual allegations and the Republican Party’s tax-reform effort.Â
“The GOP tax bill’s bringing out my inner socialist. The sex scandals are bringing out my inner feminist. Donald Trump and Roy Moore are bringing out my inner liberal,” Kristol tweeted, adding, “WHAT IS HAPPENING?”
[….]
“The speed with which we’re recapitulating the decline and fall of Rome is impressive. What took Rome centuries we’re achieving in months,” Kristol tweeted.
In March, Kristol was also critical of the House GOP’s plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare over its inability to lower health care premiums for many Americans.
“The health care bill doesn’t: A. lower costs B. improve insurance C. increase liberty or D. make health care better. So what’s the point?” he asked in March.
It’s hard to judge someone else’s marriage so in terms of cheating spouses – that’s for them to work out but it does say something about them.  Why does the public seem willing to give men a break but not women on this issue –?
I appreciated Gail and Nora’s outrage over Charlie Rose but I think they knew or at least had heard rumors so why didn’t they do something then Faux outrage ladies
“Faux outrage”Â
kgc, didn’t sound so faux to me and rang pretty damn heartfelt what gayle king said:
She said she barely slept overnight. “Oprah called me and said, ‘Are you OK?’ I am not OK,” she said. “After reading that article in the Post — it was deeply disturbing — troubling and painful for me to read.”
King said, “This is not the man I know,” describing a five-year friendship with Rose that began when they launched the morning show together in 2012.
“I’ve held him in such high regard,” she said, “and I’m really struggling, because how do you — what do you say when someone that you deeply care about has done something that is so horrible? How do you wrap your brain around that? I’m really grappling with that.”
“That said,” King continued, “Charlie does not get a pass here. He doesn’t get a pass from anyone in this room. We are all deeply affected. We are all rocked by this.”
Like I said I think they did know and had heard rumors and probably said as others, “Just Charlie being Charlie”
Whatever – the rumors were prevalent and many of his victims worked at CBS
craig, a darcy cartoon for today’s thread
patd – I find it interesting the slow but steady flow of Republicans starting to express what would be outside the “conservative bounds” statements during the last year. Even more surprising is it that a few of them are taking action to change to indies. Are they breaking ranks? It is hard to follow Joe Scarborough, how much is love and change caused by Mike B? Or is it he has heard and seen enough of “both” sides to understand that “conservative” does not equate to mean spirited and bigotry?
How much will Moore cause reconsideration? I hope a lot.
You can win the bet Charlie’s colleagues weren’t that truly surprised. Rumors about his drinking and womanizing have circulated for many years, if not decades.
My conclusion regarding turkey brining: NOT worth the trouble. While it might make the meat a bit more moist, the trade off is that it is much more difficult to get crispy skin, and meat too salty. I was dehydrated all night, had to get up and drink some water around 3am.
I agree with the Boss about bill, except about the ’92 election. I think old assgrabber bush achieved the highest vote total that he possibly could, because the rippers were pissed off at him. If voters in NH had given their votes to different Dem, we just would have gotten a different Dem President, and maybe one who would have kept Wall Street under control.
Will there be an ethics investigation of Misrepresentative barton ?
craig, do you mean “drinking and womanizing” is the same as sexual harassment?
if so (using definition of merriam-webster:  pursuing casual sexual relationships with multiple women) then many people in the 1970s who cast off social inhibitions indulging in drugs, booze & free love must be harassers in your opinion.
reuters:
Trump’s lawyers say Trump SoHo exit undermines emoluments lawsuit
NEW YORK (Reuters) – U.S. lawyers representing President Donald Trump on Friday said the Trump Organization’s exit from a luxury hotel in lower Manhattan undermines a lawsuit in which rival hotels and restaurants are challenging his alleged illegal receipt of payments from foreign governments while in office.
The Department of Justice said the Trump Organization’s decision on Wednesday to give up management of the Trump SoHo by year end and drop the Trump name bolsters the argument for dismissing the lawsuit, whose plaintiffs also include the nonprofit watchdog Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.
[….continues…]
Bloomberg:Â Turkey Says Trump Promised to Halt U.S. Arming of Syrian Kurds
President Donald Trump told Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that the U.S. would stop arming Kurdish fighters in Syria, Turkey’s foreign minister said Friday, ending a policy that had inflamed tensions between the two nations.
Trump and Erdogan spoke by telephone following a summit on Syria that took place earlier this week in Sochi, Russia, between Erdogan, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani. The gathering focused on discussions for a Syria peace settlement. Putin’s plan, which largely excludes the U.S., got a boost on Friday when Syria’s opposition agreed to form a single bloc to negotiate with President Bashar al-Assad.
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said in a press conference that Trump said weapons would no longer be given to the Kurdish group, known as the YPG. Cavusoglu said that Trump called the arming of the YPG ridiculous. The White House had no immediate comment on details of the Trump-Erdogan call.
The Kurds received U.S. backing as the most effective local proxies against Islamic State in Syria. But the policy of arming them, which began under former President Barack Obama, has been a point of tension with America’s NATO ally.
[…continues…]
Amen to Jamie @11:10
The longer I live, the more I think that at least 50% of the male of the species has had an affair outside of their established relationship. Hell, even Jimmy Carter “lusted in his heart” LOL! In my experience, most men think with their third appendage below the waist quite often! If we want to trash every man who ever had an affair, or stood too close to someone in a crowded room, did or said something inappropriate as a “joke”, etc. we would never have time to talk about anything else. Preying on those who are underage is a whole different ball of wax as is someone like trumplestiltskin who is, at best, a known serial sexual misbehaver and brags about it. At worst, he’s a criminal sexual predator. Maybe it’s time to start hustling around to find bright, intelligent, not corrupted, able bodied, articulate, under 70 year old female Democrats to run for public office at all levels so we can get rid of the degenerates that are running this country and start a new narrative on how to help regular folks and regain our good reputation with the rest of the world!
“If we want to trash every man who ever had an affair, or stood too close to someone in a crowded room, did or said something inappropriate as a “joke”, etc. we would never have time to talk about anything else.”
granny, that’s the plan! never have time to talk about anything else especially talk about ongoing investigations into trump colluding with Russia, lawsuits against the twit by women he’s defamed and worse, extent of derangement and unfitness of sitting president, and a few other things of more serious consequence affecting the welfare of the nation and the planet.  Â
Maybe all men could just be reminded of a simple truth.
If you haven’t been given a direct invitation to pat, squeeze or tickle a female body, don’t do it.
or even more important
If you haven’t been invited to unzip and show off your “enhancement”, and you do anyway, you should probably be jailed.
granny, that’s the plan!  never have time to talk about anything else especially talk about ongoing investigations into trump colluding with Russia, lawsuits against the twit by women he’s defamed and worse, extent of derangement and unfitness of sitting president, and a few other things of more serious consequence affecting the welfare of the nation and the planet. Â
patd…. Â A-fuckin’-MEN!Â
The night before last I told Sweetie that we should feminize our political institutions. She agreed.
NEW THREAD
The difference between Weiner & Barton? Â Barton didn’t send naked pics to a minor.
Barton was an idiot for taking nekked pics of himself for his of-age partner(s), but he wasn’t sending them to minors.
Now, the release of these private pics may cause his former-partner/leaker to be charged with revenge porn.
Bill is/was a dog. Â Hilary stayed because it was the politically-expedient thing to do for the both of them. Â It takes two to be a power couple.
And for those thinking women aren’t creeps, what about the female teachers and their male, minor students? Â That seems to be more common, although I know it happened long ago at my high school between a senior and a teacher who was fresh outta college…but still. Â Eww.
Didn’t Ivana claim Donny sexually assaulted her while they were still married?
I hope they’ve flipped Flynn.