Treason and Blackmail

What more does Mueller need? Surely there is enough by now to start putting people under oath, including the President. The special prosecutor inherited a yearlong FBI investigation, didn’t start from scratch. No more benefit of the doubt. Trump & Company colluded with Russians and now Putin is blackmailing them.

NYT: Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton

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Author: craigcrawford

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144 thoughts on “Treason and Blackmail”

  1. today’s thread on one of the seemingly few bi-partisan things alive and well in critterville. example from meet the press:

    SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: ….. But when it comes to Russia, he’s got a blind spot. And to forgive and forget when it comes to Putin regarding cyber-attacks is to empower Putin and that’s exactly what he’s doing.

    CHUCK TODD: Well, here we are, though, you have said similar things before. Other republicans have had similar things before that he only invokes more suspicious. What he did this morning – is he putting more faith in Putin’s word than in the word of the American Intel community?

    SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I wouldn’t look at it that way. He seems to be willing to forgive and forget Putin. Even if he brought it up, he’s not willing to do anything about it. So it makes me more committed than ever to get sanctions on President Trump’s desk punishing Putin. There’s only one person in Washington – that I know of – that has any doubt about what Russia did in our election, and it’s President Trump. And I hate that because I really like what he’s doing regarding North Korea, putting them on notice about no missile will ever be used to hit America. I like what he’s doing in Afghanistan. He took on Assad. He’s got a good plan regarding ISIL. But when it comes to Russia, I am dumbfounded, I am disappointed and, at the end of the day, he’s hurting his presidency by not embracing the fact that Putin’s a bad guy who tried to undercut our democracy and he’s doing it all over the world.

    “empower putin”….  “and he’s doing it all over the world” ???   ’nuff said.

  2. Tiffany may end up being thankful she is the oddball out in this family of oddities.

    Mr Crawford, what is the mood in Washington? One long death watch or rats scurrying to pay favor to the heir apparent in the Naval Observatory? If they sense the end is near, will the Democrats “back off” & let the Republicans regroup as a political courtesy?

    Senators McCain & Graham: lunch with Secretary Clinton & let the photos leak. Blow our minds.

  3. Short Story I wrote based on this Robert Heinlein quote:  “A fake fortuneteller can be tolerated.  But an authentic soothsayer should be shot on sight.  Cassandra did not get half the kicking around she deserved.”

    Cassandra Grousing


  4. Jamie, well done. delightful story.

    however, have question: where does one draw the line between a Cassandra (foretells the future but no one listens) and a jeremiah (a person who complains continually foretelling disaster)?  and are these just classier distinctions between the dutch boy with finger in dike or the boy who cried wolf too many times?


  5. election law blog:

    Did Trump Jr.’s Meeting With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton Violate Federal Law Against Soliciting Foreign Contributions?


    But the law also bars solicitation of these things of value from foreign nationals: “No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.” The contribution again can be considered “anything of value.”
    This is worth further investigation.

    big topic of talking heads today

  6. bink, thanks for the kind words.  can’t take credit tho’ for news of others views which I just cut and paste like some sort of blog dummy mouthing whatever clever ventriloquists are saying at the time.

    a mortimer snerd of the internet’s bergens…. or lamb chop to shari?

  7. Some days I know no one has it better than me.  Yesterday it was too hot (again hello Cassandra and Colorado Bob) so we played bocce overlooking the Pacific Ocean and in the shade of a Benny Bufano statue.

    Thank you to the Timber Cove Lodge for welcoming locals to come and play….We all liked the Cove Breeze (but it would be nice if there was bar service to the bocce court just a suggestion)

  8. like schadenfreude joy on mojo today


    The set on Morning Joe could hardly contain their glee Monday while discussing new controversy now swirling around Donald Trump Jr. The President’s eldest son added fuel to the fire of the Russia investigation when news emerged yesterday that he met with a Kremlin-backed lawyer during the campaign with the express goal of collecting damaging anti-Clinton information.

    As the true nature of the meeting became clear, Trump’s statements surrounding its purpose also shifted in the wind. According to MSNBC Justice and Security Analyst Matthew Miller, those conflicting accounts could land Trump Jr. in jail if he’s not careful.

    “The only way to trust what any of these people say is to put them in the Grand Jury, put them under oath,” said Miller. “If Donald Trump Jr. has the kind of shifting statements to a Grand Jury as he did to the New York Times, he’ll go to jail for that.”
    Miller elaborated that in addition to the obvious question of perjury, what Trump Jr. has already admitted to could already be a crime.
    “It is a crime to solicit or accept anything of value from a foreign national in a campaign. Now, the thing of value has never come up in this context before because we’ve never had a campaign like this that potentially colluded with a foreign government,” he said. “But in other contexts, in bribery cases and extortion cases thing of value doesn’t have to be money. It has to be something tangible, but not money. it could be potentially accepting information. He’s potentially confessing in his statement to committing a crime.”

  9. Jamie, if you are not familiar with the Pacific Standard, do take a look; fine work such as yours may fit with their publication as well as ours. Well done!

  10. D.C. lives on intrigue.  And right now the ghost of Nixon is making popcorn.  There are so many things going on that we can barely keep up.  Look at: the Russians cyber attacks, the Russians messing in the election using misinformation and propaganda, the Russians hacking in the elections, Russian money laundering with son-in-law, Russian money laundering SFB, Russian money laundering SFB real estate business, SFB collusion with Russian agents, and all the gang lying on the SF-86.  Rumours: SFB drug use, SFB sex with underage girls, SFB involved with Russian mob.

    Letting the low hanging fruits hang around will bring better results as they look for sweeter deals and less prison time.  SFB can’t pardon any of them so they can enjoy talking while knowing there is nothing to save them except for talking.

  11. I hope people who voted for change through Pussy G are beginning to see that a. he is not competent if he is only happy in the company of sycophants especially  ones he is related to and that b. his interests are not the interests of the American people and finally c. government is not a business and should not be run like one… the very least not like a Trump business

  12. Seemingly distressed over how media organizations reported on his daughter sitting in for him during part of the G20 summit, President Trump on Monday criticized the media, saying “fake news” organizations would have treated another presidential daughter differently.

    “If Chelsea Clinton were asked to hold the seat for her mother,as her mother gave our country away, the Fake News would say CHELSEA FOR PRES!” the president tweeted.

    Chelsea Clinton wasn’t about to let him have the final say, though.

    “Good morning Mr. President. It would never have occurred to my mother or my father to ask me. Were you giving our country away? Hoping not,” she replied.

  13. I hope he gets mad enough and quits because the American people just don’t appreciate him enough

  14. So the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians, and instead of doing his job and seeking impeachment, Lindsey Graham wants that same crooked administration to levy sanctions.  Eat a dick, Lindsey.

  15. keith, sherlock and dr. watson would be proud

    raw story:

    Keith Olbermann began Monday with a bombshell revelation by digging up President Donald Trump’s first tweet after former campaign chair Paul Manafort and son Donald Trump Jr. met with the Russian lawyer.

    According to the New York Times report, Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya had a previously undisclosed meeting at Trump Tower with campaign officials on June 9, 2016. The meeting was not disclosed despite federal requirements that they do so.

    The first tweet Trump sent after the meeting between Manafort, Don Jr. and Veselnitskaya happened to also be the first time Trump mentioned former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s “missing 33,000 emails.”

  16. You think Russia enticed or incented North Korea to antagonize us?  I do.  I wonder what the proposal was?

  17. bink, you been reading wapo again, haven’t you?

    There is no record of Pyongyang’s obtaining blueprints for the Russian missile engine, and experts disagree on whether it ever did so. But the discovery of similarities has focused new attention on a question that has dogged U.S. analysts for at least the past two years: How has North Korea managed to make surprisingly rapid gains in its missile program, despite economic sanctions and a near-universal ban on exports of military technology to the impoverished communist state?


    Russia’s rocket recycle program

  18. I think when people look at more Pussy G statements – there will be more “ironic coincidences”

    add in asshole Roger Stone’s comments and one might think they were psychics

  19. Thanks, patd.  We all knew who these Trumpistani assholes were and what they would do if given power- we allowed them to assume it, anyway.  This is what we deserve.

    We’re a nation of people who watch football at war against a nation that enjoys playing chess. Yes, we are getting destroyed; yes, we are at war with Russia- make no mistake.

    Ok, enough from me, getting angry.  Bye, again!

  20. Bink is right about carpet consultant Lindsay Graham — (and a lot of other goopers as well)  a lot of pooh pooing of Pussy G but no action.

  21. The SFB tower is full of Russians, Chinese and others who paid high prices.  Holding meetings the same place that the guy lives makes communication easy. The same thing is going on with real estate sales wherever there is a SFB development.  High prices or overpayments.  Very strange unless you are washing money of some kind of tint.

  22. Mueller isn’t russian into anything.  this is a pawn storm over a couple of years and the fbi sieve is collecting the lies and tying them to the $$$ and the election heist.

    Holy Philatelic!   A postal stamp for the total solar eclipse with thermocromic ink.




  23. Maybe Melanoma can handle the cyber attacks since it is  form of bullying

  24. Patd

    I would put the Cassandra as someone on the far extension of already known fact.  i.e. known, the seas are rising.  Far end, permafrost melt much faster than predicted currently blowing holes in Siberia and releasing uncontrollable levels of methane that must be acknowledged.

    Jeremiah…. Someone constantly whining without recommendations to alter or alleviate solely for the purpose of either notoriety or personal gain.


  25. Look at rancid priebus in the WH and the new RNC  (racist nationalists committee)  emerges with new players…the whole party is culpable and complicit to let putin run trump and the US of AA like a branch office.  putie’s patsy allowed for the takeover of the entire repug party forcing their way into the WH.  Machine learning, fake news, redistricting?  How about the ease of changing a few county voting machines at the hands of rabid supporters.  The repugs sat on their hands, duct taped their mouths because they benefited from the heist by becoming the majority party with minority backing.  Some magic.  Now we have a prez that only speaks to his supporters…we are the enemy along with the press.  We are called the opposition instead of fellow Americans.  What is going on?  2/3rds of the country without a leader.

  26. I’m associating myself with BW’s remarks

    Japan and EU sign trade agreement. Snubs the US

    Boy aren’t you just tired of winning so much

    Deranged Donnie – I might like this better than PG

  27. Jamie

    The sad fact is that article could be 100% dead on but because of the environmental movements Jeramiah behavior, nobody pays attention.

    Given their love of scary hyperbole, I know where the safe bet is. I remember the dud that was the Population Bomb. Sad fact is every scary movement  prediction from 50 years ago was a bust.

    Fact is those prediction trends were wrong, instead of getting worse things have gotten better the world is rapidly moving to zpg with out any drastic measures.

    So what makes you think the same won’t happen with climate change?


  28. Well, donnie the drain wasn’t the only one to torpedo TPP…sanders helped the dems mess themselves over the trade deal.  In essence, the TPP was a replacement pacific trade deal and trump treats it like brexit.  The US of AA will NOT get a great deal now with our Asian partners and we screwed our Australian friends with the agreement withdrawal.

    I was never against the TPP and most humans never understood the deal.   They fell for the left and right extremes taking over our business.   As I have commented before, most citizens would not know if they met a unilateral, bilateral or regional trade agreement.

  29. Flatus

    Thank you for the lead on Pacific Standard.  One of their first articles I saw was about Dick Gregory’s son.  His father has fascinated me for decades.


  30. ZPG at 7 billion people has kind of lost its meaning.   There are too many people already they should have stopped a long time ago

    Donald Trump has five children – all of them like him. The first two would still be like him but at least he wouldn’t be proliferating

  31. Jack

    What makes me think the same thing won’t happen?  The simple fact that we may be moving toward ZPG, but we aren’t moving fast enough and actually need to be going backward to about 4 billion. The current time condition is that man is simply outstripping the resources of soil, water and air to support what we already have.

    Large areas are already in a state of famine, severe pollution, encroaching desert, or simply wars fighting over the still existent supplies.  This is what is at the heart of all terrorism.  The developed world hogging the majority of the comfort while those without are simply trying to survive.

    World Population Growth

  32. One of the larger problems that Earth is facing is the advancing level of urbanization across the world.  For example, the city of Dhaka Bangladesh which had a population of a little less than 2 million in 1970 – now has a population of 19 million.  Estimates are that the population will grow to 21 million by 2021.

    This has caused a reduction of food supplies (farmers going to the big city), pollution, collapsing infrastructure and millions of people living in utter poverty in shacks / cardboard boxes, etc.  Sub saharan Africa is also experiencing a similar effect re available food due to rapidly increasing urbanization (and population density (like 27,000 per sq mile in Dhaka)).

    Oh – and BTW – how many people withdrew large sums of money to hide in their house at the turn of the millennium / Y2K?


  33. If you need to know what’s happening, Blonde Wino can tell you.  All of her analyses are “spot on” (hate that expression).


    Backing out of TPP, that act alone, ended American hegemony in the Pacific.  You know, that whole quarter-hemisphere the Greatest Generation fought, bled, and died to control?  Gone.  China runs it now.  Nice job, morons.

  34. jack, things might have “gotten better” as you say in some areas, but not for the critters that ain’t no more and for the other critters that depended upon them.

    the guardian: Earth’s sixth mass extinction event already under way, scientists warn

    Scientists analysed both common and rare species and found billions of regional or local populations have been lost. They blame human overpopulation and overconsumption for the crisis and warn that it threatens the survival of human civilisation, although there remains a short window of time in which to act.

    The new study, published in the peer-reviewed journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, eschews the normally sober tone of scientific papers and calls the massive loss of wildlife a “biological annihilation” that represents a “frightening assault on the foundations of human civilisation”.

    Prof Gerardo Ceballos, at the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, who led the work, said: “The situation has become so bad it would not be ethical not to use strong language.”

  35. In the 49 years since The Population Bomb was published the population of the world HAS doubled.


    Ahh, retrospect.  Ehrlich has addressed the “failure of his predictions”.

    In answer to the question: “Were your predictions in The Population Bomb right?”, Ehrlich responded:

    Anne and I have always followed UN population projections as modified by the Population Reference Bureau — so we never made “predictions,” even though idiots think we have. When I wrote The Population Bomb in 1968, there were 3.5 billion people. Since then we’ve added another 2.8 billion — many more than the total population (2 billion) when I was born in 1932. If that’s not a population explosion, what is? My basic claims (and those of the many scientific colleagues who reviewed my work) were that population growth was a major problem. Fifty-eight academies of science said that same thing in 1994, as did the world scientists’ warning to humanity in the same year. My view has become depressingly mainline!

    In another retrospective article published in 2009, Ehrlich said, in response to criticism that many of his predictions had not come to pass:[2]

    the biggest tactical error inThe Bombwas the use of scenarios, stories designed to help one think about the future. Although we clearly stated that they were not predictions and that “we can be sure that none of them will come true as stated,’ (p. 72)—their failure to occur is often cited as a failure of prediction. In honesty, the scenarios were way off, especially in their timing (we underestimated the resilience of the world system). But they did deal with future issues that people in 1968 should have been thinking about – famines, plagues, water shortages, armed international interventions by the United States, and nuclear winter (e.g., Ehrlich et al. 1983, Toon et al. 2007)—all events that have occurred or now still threaten

    Thanks to Wiki for the quotes.

  36. Don Jr claims Russian lawyer’s HRC dirt too vague for use. Isn’t that an admission he would’ve accepted & used valid intel, commit treason?

  37. I am not in on any of the information regarding intelligence community, so what I post are what I pick up on the media and mull over a bit and give my analysis.  So I am often wrong, and occasionally correct.

    The NK using rockets that look Soviet or Russian or Chinese, is very possible.  The outsides are not too difficult to make, it is the rocket engine that is more difficult.  The Soviet rocket engines were all over the place and since NK trade partners include countries which had contact with the things, copies could have been made or stolen.  The issue is those are old technology which is being combined with modern Chinese control technology, allowing for better fireworks.  The big question is whether Russia or China is screwy enough to pass on technology to build a better nuclear warhead.  So far not known.

    Do not be lead down a flowery lane by the republicans dismissing the jr’s move into the black world.  They put up the “children” were naive.  BS. The are adults and know better.  The woman was not known to them, so they could not know she was Russian.  BS.  They were told.  The meeting did not produce results.  BS.  As shown by KO, the same day, shortly after the meeting SFB starts attacking with HRC thirty K missing emails.  And on and on.  Including a lot of lies and false equalization.  Also, watch out for the word or phrase “colluding”.  No no.  Not what the issue is.

    SFB jr went to a meeting with a Russian agent to get bad stuff on HRC.  Flat out a violation of statute (i will look it up later).  SFB jr failed to put this and more on his clearance paperwork (SF 86), violation of statute.  He brought in the head of the SFB campaign staff.  Everyone forgot all about this.

    Standard operating procedure to get a new person recruited to do your work is to find a way to compromise them.  Also, the recruiting agent is several steps removed from the spy agency to make it difficult to track back.  In this case the lawyer was two or three steps removed from the SVR.  Not good enough, easy to track back.  Although SFB jr has so far not admitted to taking the bait to become a Russian SVR agent, his and the others involved, seem to have told SFB sr about the HRC emails, otherwise how would SFB sr tweet out a couple hours after the meeting about the emails?  When compromising a new recruit just having that person(s) meet is quite enough. Also, the Russian lawyer probably had US and other Intelligence Community following her, so they know what happened too.

    Lesson of the day.  If a Russian wants to meet you to discuss illegal activities call your local FBI and police immediately.  Do not go to the meeting.  If a Russian wants to meet you for a drink, call your local FBI and police immediately.  If you think you are being played, call your local FBI and police immediately.  And, do not go to the meeting or pick up the room key left next to your drink.



  38. Craig

    I’m curious.  About how many regular “lurkers” do we have.  It seems to me that frequently some of our conversations end up as talking points in news discussions.  It may just be an example of great minds having a single thought lol, but I do wonder if you know if some of the pundits regularly drop in for a read?

  39. Jamie – sometimes I have seen a phrase or partial sentence that is from here.  A concept for an article, cannot complain, sometimes there is a deadline and a concept helps get it in on time.  I think I read that all good ideas were written by the Greeks and all we do is copy those and change the names.

  40. It has been more than half a century since I studied Hellenistic history at Kenyon; it could have been so interesting and exciting if Sturg were the prof

  41. Jamie, we have about 10-20 times more lurkers than commenters. Can only say you can say what you said but I couldn’t possibly (BBCs House of Cards). I’ve never shared the identity of anyone who comes here, lurker or not, never will. But will say it’s impressive.

  42. Jamie, thanks for the tip on Will (Shakespeare) show on TNT tonight. Spectacular. Although I could have done without the disembowelment scenes. Didn’t need to see that.

  43. The dinosaurs were around for 65 million years…they managed to live, communicate and recycle before a big rock blew them off the top of the life list.    So what if humans are causing the sixth mass extinction!  For most, it is over when they die and survival of the fittest?  The ability to successfully reproduce.   I sure hope we  find a way to eat our own waste and fill-in any essentials with lab food.   Resources are shrinking and becoming toxic making us sick and puny.   Climate change may not do-in the human race, but it will change our lives.


  44. SJWNY: “Mr.Crawford, what is the mood in Washington?”

    I’d say relishing the excuse to bash another president into the ground and keep on enriching the rich, screw the working class. Far easier for them to destroy Trump than appease his voters.

    I’ve been here since Carter, watched the establishment undermine every president in the end, even Reagan. This one seems a bit faster than usual.

    Sorry to acknowledge the “Deep State” right wing rhetoric of the day, what I always just called the shadow government. But it really does exist. In this instance, perhaps for a good result.

  45. I was going to respond to the  POP bomb supporters but I ran across this in the Wiki article. says it all and then some if you can read.

    After explaining the domestic policies the US should pursue, he discusses foreign policy. He advocates a system of “triage,” such as that suggested by William and Paul Paddock in Famine 1975!. Under this system countries would be divided into categories based on their abilities to feed themselves going forward. Countries with sufficient programmes in place to limit population growth, and the ability to become self-sufficient in the future would continue to receive food aid. Countries, for example India, which were “so far behind in the population-food game that there is no hope that our food aid will see them through to self-sufficiency” would have their food aid eliminated. Ehrlich argued that this was the only realistic strategy in the long-term. Ehrlich applauds the Paddocks’ “courage and foresight” in proposing such a solution.[10] Ehrlich further discusses the need to set up public education programs and agricultural development schemes in developing countries. He argues that the scheme would likely have to be implemented outside the framework of the United Nations due to the necessity of being selective regarding the targeted regions and countries, and suggests that within countries certain regions should be prioritized to the extent that cooperative separatist movements should be encouraged if they are an improvement over the existing authority. He mentions his support for government mandated sterilization of Indian males with three or more children.[11]

    OK, Yeah, Bink,  I guess Newton applies here, if you are dealing in 19th century thinking.

    I think I’ll go wash my hands.



  46. I think the interesting thing about the population bomb ( besides the obvious 19th century eugenics racism, ya know I never remembered that one, I must be more enlightened now) was how Erlich missed it. It was there. The dissemination of ideas, blue jeans, rock n roll. It was all a package deal the result of post war America’s leadership roll in the world. Free trade and all that stuff. You know like women are human beings. They have a say in what happens with their body. In what happens with their family,

    If the world had followed the European model of population and development then maybe Erlich may have had a defense. but it didn’t. It didn’t because women became empowered world wide and they wanted more than to be just breeders.  As a result world wide in developed and undeveloped, rural and urban, women have more control and as a result birth rates have plunged.

    Of course Erlich has used the same tactic every other phoney Cassandra has done. “Just wait It will happen.

    Given that he predicted disaster 40 years ago…………….

    So when does it happen, right now all the trend lines are against him. The countries in Asia that he wrote off as “beyond help” are now economic engines of the world.

    How bad do you have to be at the Cassandra business before you are shown the door?


  47. How is a refutation (valid or not) of “The Population Bomb” likewise a sincere refutation of the popular consensus among almost all of the world’s climate scientists?  It’s not.

    That aside, you must be the only person I know who doesn’t think everything is crowded, these days.

    …but since you like music:

  48. ny times: Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign

    Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

  49. Seems to me that a better analogy between a warning regarding atmospheric related disaster for the planet, a reaction and an improvement and reversal of the problem would be the ozone layer depletion and Antarctic ozone layer hole warning that arose back in the 80s. Since that time the governments of 195 countries put limits On the use of chlorofluorocarbons and over the course of approximately 20 years the threat of a widening ozone holes and lack of atmospheric UV protection from the ozone layer in the upper atmosphere provides has reduced and you virtually never hear about that threat any more  because we recognized the problem, got the world to cooperate to address the problem, and the problem will take care of itself to the extent that it can. That is exactly what is not happening in climate change as far as the US is concerned. Is  A Mars scenario on the horizon? Probably not, at least not in our life times, but is there a problem that’s observable and measurable and there are solutions that may help address it? Absolutely. So why aren’t we doing things like that?

  50. Oh, and by the way with respect to Donald Trump Jr. and his meeting with the Russian attorney who he believed had information helpful to the Trump campaign, sounds to me like he, Manafort, Kushner, the Russian guy that set the meeting up and possibly the attorney in Russia could have been engaged in a conspiracy To collude to accept things of value in the context of the election, which is specifically prohibited by federal law.

  51. Last night found out about a cousin who worked in the Interior Department circa 1890s through the early 20th Century. His daughter married the son of Confederate Spy Thomas Nelson Conrad, who got most of his info from Washington government workers & then passed it onto Richmond. DC was a sift (imagine that.)

    Which leads me to today …. how do the everyday government workers feel, act during this time of uncertainty? Do they do their best, slack off, feel why give a damn? We discuss & throw light on the “top” folks but give little notice to the cogs in the wheels of government. Attitude matters, whether in day to day governance or working in the shop down the street. Thought about this as I watched America In Color, The ’30s. There was a can do spirit & pride in work then; heck, most were grateful for a job. What is the mood today & do we appreciate their work? They work for us.

  52. The Republicans have successfully demonized Government: it’s like the Blob that’s just waiting to envelop & smother you. It must take a toll if you go to work knowing you are the target, yet also know you are a big part of the reason this whole Democracy thing stays up & running.

  53. So Jr is now the shiny new object we’re all supposed to focus on.  Think I’ll keep my eyes on the prize…   Daddy.  And I’m reading that SFB is leaving son out to dry.  Yeah right…  if you believe this wasn’t planned I’ve got a bridge to sell ya.

    Keep doing your job Mueller…

  54. If #45 survives this, wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans pick up wins in 2018. Perceived persecution has its perks.



  55. with the boys’ lawyers chumming for critterville committee face time to publically tell their side of the story, seems to me that they’re trying for an ollie north immunization shot.

    and will likely find a few friendly folks to offer them that.  imagine many a goper that just wants to find some  low level scape goat to slaughter, save their tripartite rule and get this behind them.

  56. Well, we have become a clan of Duggars…greedy baby makers, stingy with outsiders…send food.  The almighty sperm!  Good grief…the math on exponential growth is beyond our grasp just because the US of AA birthrate is dropping.   Not the story globally.  When I first started commenting here, Maslov’s pyramid ruled the day.  Forget about self actualization…we are stuck in the first level.  How are we going to keep feeding us all?  Getting rid the wild animals is helping, but we need our daily food.   Farm animals and domesticated pets?  More food.    Everyone survives by eating something that was once living on our planet.   We are making a whole lot of poop instead.

  57. donnie the drain and his sons? Look to Madoff…he sent his sons to slaughter and they are dead and gone while his criminal ass hangs in jail.    Oedipal ending.

  58. Pretty ugly stuff from some really ugly people

    That Betsy DeVol  nothing is going to stop her from ruining public education

  59. Pussy G will not be a two termer- that is just wishful gooper baloney

    It’s not about liberal versus the assholes – it is about the corruption of our electoral system and who is going to stand up and make sure they don’t wipe all the Democrats off the voting roles

    No offense but that article is garbage

  60. OK, where are the instructions for posting pictures and videos?  When I try it looks like it’s going to post then a little icon shows up instead of the pic or the vid when I post the comment.

  61. KGC,

    If the Dem/Libral/Left  factions don’t get their act together they will continue to lose at every level. Anger and name calling are neither a policy or a strategy. At some point you have to stop hearding cats and start sharpening claws.

  62. Jace

    From where I sit that is what is happening at the local and state level but the big effort by the goopers is to remove people from the voting roles and make it harder to vote.  More people are progressive – they aren’t being allowed to vote

    300k tossed off the rolls in Wisconsin  Pussy G  wins by 30k —  so it’s not about issues it is about access to the electoral process

    Not losing in California –

  63. Katherine Graham Cracker,

    #45 survived stuff that would have taken down a bazillion candidates. With this guy I assume nothing. He is rubber. Everything else is glue. Amazing, awful, eternal wtf moments with this man. Yet he survives. Plus he probably has oodles of crap on the current GOP so it behooves them to keep him in power & the fact he’s in power = they’re in power. Heck, who’s to say the Russians haven’t provided blackmail worthy info about Republicans to their chosen “Republican”? Playing every side means you’ll hit pay dirt somewhere.



  64. Pogo

    For videos, just post the URL in the body of the message.  i.e. go to YouTube, hit share, copy the code that appears and paste it here.

    For Photos, get the photo you want on to your computer, click “Choose File” and put in the .jpg of your photo.  It will appear above what you are writing.

  65. pogo, just saw your sen manchin on cnn and you’d been proud of him,  his very clear outrage about the Russia mtg and his strong support for aca.

    on the vid posts: click on share, click “cut” (not copy), post in comment box.
    don’t know your set up for image posting. I just post to my picture file and then use the browse thingy above the comment box for it.

  66. Jace, I associate myself with KGC’s comments about that article.  In my mind the last sentence says it all – and it is wrong.

  67. Jack

    I don’t deny any of the Eugenics garbage.  You are absolutely right in that there was a distinct European/White advantage built into the warnings of overpopulation.  That was then.  This is now.  How do we reduce and solve the problem for the globe without killing off huge swaths of human beings at a rate fast enough to beat the devil that is chasing us.

    Right now at my most bitter, I’m in favor of letting the carnivores in the animal kingdom eat them if only to save the elephants.  No hunting or habitat encroachment allowed.  Learn to run fast people, most of you need the exercise anyway.



  68. Pussy G is a minority wannbe putin and if people are allowed to vote he will not win

    10k off the roles in Ga using the plan started by Pussy G’s people to llegally remove people from voting.

  69. KGC,

    tossing folks off voter rolls is just a symptom of the disease. As long a the GOP controls these states these types of ALEC inspired measures will continue unimpeded. Dems. Are doing nothing to confront the onslaught other than blaming each other.

    I believe that the GOP game plan is to gut healthcare as quickly as possible and get some distance on it before the mid terms. If they are successful they can hold their majorities in 18 and then move on to other screw the public measures. If the plan works the 20 election won’t matter, most of their pet goals will have been achieved. Everything else will be just icing on the cake.

  70. Jamie & jack, I foresee mandatory extreme dieting to compensate for less available food and room on the planet.   fit more people in if they’re only skin and bone… also anorexics don’t eat so much.

  71. #45 has no rules, which confounds those who choose to play by them. He’s got tanks while the opposition still uses cavalry.

  72. patd,  Joe is a bit too far right for my tastes, but regardless of that he IS a moderate, he’s a pretty smart guy and he’s been governor of this state, which by most accounts did OK while he was governor, at least by WV standards. He’s come up through the WV political ranks for the past 44 years, holding a slew of elected positions.  He has come over to support funding of Planned Parenthood after identifying as pro life and sponsoring a bill to defund it.  His political instincts are very good.  He is going to be challenged in 2018 from both sides.  Should be interesting to see if WV voters will kick him out and flip the seat to the pugns.

  73. from nbc news interview with russian lawyer

    “It is quite possible that maybe they were longing for such an information. They wanted it so badly that they could only hear the thought that they wanted.”

    [more from the linked article:
    She described how Trump Jr. ran the meeting, which she said lasted 20-30 minutes. Two other men who she never met by name were also in the room. She said she only realized three days who they were after seeing their photos in the news. Those men were Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort.
    “I could recognize the young gentleman who was only present in the meeting for probably the first seven to 10 minutes, and then he stood up and left the room,” she said. “It was Mr. Jared Kushner. And he never came back, by the way.
    “And the other individual who was in the same meeting, but all the time he was looking at his phone. He was reading something. He never took any active part in the conversation. That was Mr. Manafort.” Midway in the interview, she described Manafort as “absent-minded.” ]

  74. Pogo,

    You may well be correct, but I see no unifying force on the horizon that can bring these factions together. The bitterness and finger pointing are so entrenched that nothing is getting done. The DNC is a joke to most, and with few exceptions congressional leadership is seen as weak and willing to bend with the wind especially when the wind is blowing from monied interests. If their is a national candidate on the rise, I have yet to see him or her. Just not that optimistic about being rid of Trump or his republican enablers any time soon.

  75. If people want to assume defeat and just cry in their beer – we will lose

    but it’s about time and money and making sure we are fighting the correct battle

    Plenty of Dem victories this year and there will be more but not if people give in before the fight starts

    If they gut the current health care options and offer only something worse — there will be no republicans left

  76. Jace, I agree with your take on Repub v. Dems.  Democrats try to play by Roberts Rules, Republicans play by no rules at all except to kill and conquer.  Perhaps the Dems need to read “The Art of War” a few times?

  77. There are only 5 goopers left in California …next year none—what is wrong with the rest of you

  78. Jamie, thanks – with vids I was being too complicated about it.


    I’ll mess with pics in a bit.


  79. dvitale300,

    You have a point. If we learned anything in 16 it was that simply being notTrump is not enough. They’re are plenty of GOP troglodytes out there to run against. Being a handsome prince does not ensure victory

  80. Craig

    I didn’t expect you to name names, only to confirm suspicions.  🙂  Nice to know they are there listening if only for segment ideas.  We have some interesting folks hanging out here.  It’s nice to know some might be doing a little more than just yelling at their TVs.


  81. KGC, dems do win in blue states like CA. And will continue to do so.

    sadley they don’t fare so well in Michigan, Ohio,Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,even Florida where they should have natural constituencies aligned with core democratic values.

    yes it takes money and it takes work. One is forced to wonder how much time the Dem. party apparatus is spending in these places registering new voters and re registering purged voters. You can’t show up every two years shouting vote for me, I’m not GOP and then disappear until the next cycle. Republicans have learned this and practiced it, dems have paid lip service to it, most often after they have just lost another election.

  82. Unintended consequences division of human affairs.  One of the Bernie Bros published a pic of a Bernie enemies list.  This led to a whole lot of thank you responses for letting us know who to follow and the whole group watching the number of followers take off like a rocket.  lol


  83. Until the last election they did fine in Ohio,Pa and Wisconsin Michigan etc. were competitive.    Michigan and Ohio have had Dem govs and dem senators and dems in the congressional delegations — when I was growing up in Ohio it was all gooper all the time–not so now.  Wsconsin and Minnesota are progressive states despite 2016 and will be back.

    2016 is an election with so many facets to it that what happened is still being uncovered.

    But it wasn’t the be all end all of the Democratic Party in those states.   And the Dems will be back

    There are a lot of things I wish the national party would do but most of all a 50 state strategy so that

    no election goes unchallenged.  Bring back Dr. Dean

  84. the two-hour trumputin meeting must have really pissed-off an investigative leaker in spookville.   Make me feel good to be an American.  Now we have this juicy news of a meeting that set-off the money pay-off to russia.   Nothing of importance was discussed, just the nod for the money and information flow to start.

    My placard used to read ‘Tower Trash Go Home’…now it reads’ Tower Trash GO Directly to Jail.’  trump the dupa is going to be an expensive mistake.

  85. My local city councilman came to the door last evening and we welcomed him.  He is a dem, but as BB has told us…local politicians do not declare party on campaign materials.  Only the Independent candidates show party affiliation.  Hubby was unsure he was a dem, I recognized him.  He had the Monument review info for the Dept. of the Interior.  Our regressive prez in any attempt to rip-out or rip-off Mr. Obama is reviewing all of the National Monuments.   More waste of money.  Our local community has united against trump.  I am proud to live in a blue state.

    Meanwhile, steve pearce is running for governor….now claims he doesn’t side with trump on the wall.  He is softening his edges.  The dems have a stable of challengers…may they win!  And the dems have a shot at the congressional seat he vacates.  They did get a blue dog dem in place when pearce made his failed bid for Senator.

  86. KGC,

    hope you’re right. Of the states you mentioned, Michigan is the one I will be watching most closely. I consider it another Petrie dish experiment on GOP governance. I will be anxious to see how long before the residents decide that the experiment has been a failure. I consider it much like Kansas in the rust belt.

  87. Pussy G is just the ultimate gooper – he’s not the problem by himself.

    I think people should let Mueller do his job and focus on the issues


    I would like to hear Jennifer Granholm on what she thinks is going on in Michigan

  88. well…the latest investigative news is great and it is fun to watch the trumpence crew ‘swatting russians off-of-their shoulders.’  I just watched an old vid of pence discussing the russian connection and the campaign.  He is a great liar, a good actor and probably complicit, too.

  89. Or he could be the world’s biggest dupe

    Pussy G saved his political life – Pence is there to be the fool (but Jesus will save him in the end as long as the scandal doesn’t involve women.)

  90. It could be that the collision between Pussy G and the Russians happened by accident – I heard one of the intelligence guys say that — the Accidental Traitor.

    But the bigger problem is what else Mueller is finding.  There are probably a whole lot of blue dresses lying around Trumpco

  91. Patd

    They all shared a fondness for Hillary and thus became the enemies of the Bernie Bros who still continue to share every Trump produced negative about her.


  92. I still think it will be president ryan…pence has gone from swamp to quicksand bypassing the quagmire stage.

  93. So, despite the electoral trickery (e.g. voter suppression), Dems lose middle-America because of the abortion issue.  It’s a deal-breaker for just about any practicing Christian.  I’m not suggesting reproductive rights be dropped from the platform, but it would change the game.  If Dems/Progs won’t do that, the they’ll have to start engaging in the politics of fear, manipulation, and exploitation that work so well for the Facist Party of Business and Vengeful Jesus.

  94. A majority of Americans think abortion should be legal 57%

    Only 40% think it should be illegal.

    I don’t think it is abortion that is keeping the Dems back

    It’s goopers who feel that way.

    The real question is what is up with women who are pro-choice and voted for goopers

  95. Pogo, with pics just make sure they are the allowed file type (jpg works best) and size listed above, shouldn’t have a problem

  96. So, let’s assume your percentages are correct, that 57% now gets split between moderate family-life liberals and radical social fringe elements, i.e. Clintoncrats and Bernie Bros.  That 40% wakes up early to get in line and votes in a bloc like good Christian soldiers.

  97. Your abortion discussion reminds me of the days when those Dems who were pro-choice were afraid to talk about it. In 1988 I wrote a question for a colleague on one of the Bush-Dukakis debate panels asking Bush if he thought women who get abortions should go to jail. I forget the exact words but he allowed the impression he did think so. To my astonishment Dukakis and his campaign manager Susan Estrich were mum about it at their press conferences afterward and the next morning, totally missed the obvious opportunity because they didn’t want to emphasis their pro-choice views. Jim Baker walked it back for Bush later on and they took no hits.

  98. Bink

    If the GOP were actually serious about right to life, they would be doing everything possible to both make birth control legal and easy free access for women to clinics that provide family planning counseling.  That more than anything would eliminate the majority of abortions and for the most part restrict them to only the tiny percentage that are as a result of serious medical situations.

    They don’t want to ban abortions.  They want the political issue to collect election funds from the true believers who are sincerely pro life.


  99. Given all the crowing by Trumpelstilskin about his great success on G20 front, this Pew Research poll might be a wake up call.

  100. I hate it when we allow the right wing to name things.  i.e Pro-life vs Pro-choice.

    Pro-choice is not the same as being Pro-Abortion.  Believing that a woman should be in charge of her own body and make such decisions in conjunction with her doctor, family, and religious beliefs does not mean you think that the choice should be an abortion.  It means you understand the issues that brought her to that point and want to eliminate as many of those issues as possible so that she can choose life for a viable pregnancy and a healthy child.


  101. dv, yep talking heads are exploding all over cnn and msnbc since lil Donnie jr releaed thhe email chain which shows in black and white very clearly that they were told the meeting was to be with a Russian gov’t attorney and that the gov’t is backing trump for prez.   this disclosure on don jr’s part was  due to nytimes  plan to publish the copies they had any minute.

  102. “They [the GOP] don’t want to ban abortions.  They want the political issue to collect election funds from the true believers who are sincerely pro life.” -Jamie

    Then, take that issue away from them.


    Great justifications and explanations from you, I agree with them!  Middle-Americans are dumb, though, and having heard everything you just said before, they’ve rejected it all.  They just hear “blah blah blah abortion blah blah blah”.

    Stop giving the people that installed a cartoon-character to lead them so much credit.


    I could continue, but tempus fugit, and so must I.

  103. the guardian: Donald Trump Jr posts emails of Russian offer of material on Clinton: ‘I love it’

    The emails show music promoter Rob Goldstone telling the future US president’s son that “the crown prosecutor of Russia” had offered “to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father”.

    Goldstone adds: “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump.”

    Trump Jr replies 17 minutes later and welcomes the offer. “If it’s what you say, I love it, especially later in the summer.”

    In a later email, Goldstone describes the Russian lawyer they were due to meet, Natalia Veselnitskaya, as a “Russian government attorney”.

  104. George Carlin (usual language warning)

    The planet is just fine … We will be gone


  105. attention! attention!  new shiny object before us

    see my posts above on the smoking email chain …. not that abortion argument not important, but ….

  106. particularly the one from the guardian.


    and thanks, dv, for the 1st alert.  my head’s been stuck in front of tv  and forgot to pull the alarm.

  107. nytimes via msn

    The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.

    The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

    If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

    He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

    Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.”

    Donald Trump Jr. agreed, adding that he would likely bring along “Paul Manafort (campaign boss)” and “my brother-in-law,” Jared Kushner, now one of the president’s closest White House advisers.

    On June 9, the Russian lawyer was sitting in the younger Mr. Trump’s office on the 25th floor of Trump Tower, just one level below the office of the future president.


    After being told that The Times was about to publish the content of the emails, instead of responding to a request for comment, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted out images of them himself on Tuesday.

    “To everyone, in order to be totally transparent, I am releasing the entire email chain of my emails” about the June 9 meeting, he wrote. “I first wanted to just have a phone call but when that didn’t work out, they said the woman would be in New York and asked if I would meet.”

    He added that nothing came of it.

  108. Don’t get too excited, patd. The President (wretching, hold on, let me go vomit…)


    The Preside…(oh, God, it’s coming back up, again).


    The President can pardon anyone he wants.  See what they’re trying to do?

  109. Watching Fox News while they transmit new alibi angles to trump via the tv airwaves.   Only the russians can gain access to trump….the media and American citizens shut-out!  The ruskies get access to the Oval Office and muck-it up with trump.  And while at the G20, trump demands quality time with his maker.    And the repugs blame the media and dems for this accidental president.  He is a planned mistake by putie.

  110. bink, he’d better issue those pardons fast.  times arunning out.


    from wapo:

    Democrats were quick to pounce on the latest revelation related to the probe.

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said that everyone involved in the meeting should be “immediately summoned” to testify under oath between the House and Senate committees investigating Russian meddling.

    “There’s no escaping it: the Trump Campaign’s inner circle met with an agent of a hostile foreign power to influence the outcome of the American election,” Pelosi said in a statement. “The American people face a White House riddled with shadowy Russian connections and desperate to hide the truth.”

    and tpm:

    “Many allusions and many stories of meetings and communications and stuff, yeah, so there’ll be many more shoes that will drop,” McCain told CNN’s Manu Raju in an on-camera interview.


  111. What faster way to destroy the country than to elect that guy– that Vlad.

  112. Vlad didn’t have to do that much – the goopers were well into destroying democracy without them


  113. The Hobby Lobby’s Hobby is tax avoidance with their tax deductible bible museum  ack ack ack

  114. kgc, any day now we’ll see what looks like big ole Donald being unzipped and out steps diminutive vlad…. kinda like taking off the iron man costume.

    or more like the icky alien monster bursting from his chest

  115. Who mentioned conspiracy this morning?  I ain’t the only one thinking along those lines.

    Of course, there already was evidence of other meetings between Russian officials and members of the Trump campaign. The crucial new detail about this meeting is that campaign members now admit it took place after they were told that Veselnitskaya was offering compromising information about Clinton.
    This fact is significant regardless of what happened at the meeting. Proving a defendant’s state of mind is key in any criminal case. This meeting provides critical evidence about the state of mind of Trump representatives: They were willing to hear what a Russian individual had to offer about their opponent.

    Proving intent is is the biggest obstacle to a successful conspiracy case because you know “I didn’t mean to break the law Or anything…”

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