The Golden Door

Seems like a fitting time to remember Emma Lazarus, the poet who authored our nation’s greatest promise:

Emma_Lazarus
The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she

With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

statue-of-liberty

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craigcrawford

Author: craigcrawford

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113 thoughts on “The Golden Door”

  1. Perfect thing to consider as drumpf goes to Mexico to meet with the Mexican president presumably to talk about Mexico paying for the border wall to keep Mexicans out of the United States. Sweet isn’t it?

    So I see that Bernie’s hand-picked candidate lost to Debbie Wasserman Schultz in Florida. Well when is he going to start working as hard as he can to make sure that Donald Trump doesn’t get elected as president United States? I ain’t seen it yet.

    Oh, WOO HOO!

  2. pogo, that mexico trip means more free media, company plane payments and reimbursed travel expenses from campaign (or rnc).  he sure knows how to spend other people’s money.   am thinking unkindly thoughts of Tijuana trots aka turista aka travelers diarrhea.

  3. NBC First Read poses the basic questions about Trump’s immigration stands for his big speech in Phoenix tonight, supposedly to clarify his positions:
    What, precisely, does Trump propose doing with the 11 million or so undocumented immigrants living in the United States, especially those who are law abiding and have lived in the country for years and years?
    If they must go, how do you accomplish it?
    If they must go, how do you pay for it?
    Is Trump 100% certain on ending birthright citizenship?

  4. Come-on, Donald, make a lasting impression. Fill the cargo compartment of Air Force 0.24 with Agua de Trump for the destitute people of Mexico City thirsting to be free.

  5. raw story:

    Perennially cranky comedian Lewis Black made a rare appearance on MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Tuesday and blasted the hosts for their detachment from reality in covering the 2016 presidential race.

    “This is fiction!” said Black. “We are living in fictional times.”

    If you read what’s happening now in a book, he said, it would be a great book. Living through it, on the other hand, is another matter.

    This is the year, he said, when political satire and reality have met, fused together and become one.

  6. also from raw story:

    After news broke on Tuesday that Trump was meeting with Mexico President Enrique Peña Nieto, Reiner turned those words back on the Republican candidate.

    “Clearly we’re not sending our best to Mexico,” Reiner tweeted. “We’re sending liars. We’re sending narcissists. We’re sending sociopaths.”

  7. Love the comments – especially the turista one.

    Craig, humanely – soooo humanely, Mexico will pay for the expenses, and yes (of course trying to change birthright citizenship would take a constitutional amendment, but hey, what’s an amendment among friends?)

  8. KC, Clinton’s lead over Trump increased by 25% in today’s Economist poll as compared with last week’s economist poll.  (It went from 4% to 5%) Like that spin on the numbers?

  9. wonder what Trump’s version of Emma’s poem would look like:

    “Keep your homeless, tempest-tost away from me,

    Or I’ll kick their asses right back out the golden door!”

  10. For you wonkish types, here’s how things are changing, state by state according to RCP  This reflects what KC was saying yesterday pretty dramatically. (And I’ll believe that Oregon change when I see it reported in November, and not before).

  11. Or he’ll just do this with the last 6 lines:

    “Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
    With silent lips. “Give me NOT your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send NOT these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the LOCKED golden door!”

  12. Trump is actually proposing the same policy that built our country.  This is a complex issue and thank you Donald Trump for bringing a dialogue.  He will never get the support of most of you on this blog.  He will however get the truth of his message beyond the ideological objectives of the MSM and their ignorance.   The media today is such a false and coordinated effort of lies and half truths.

    Trump is a work in progress and if he continues to make gains the MSM will only work harder to try and defeat him.  They are also puppets and regardless of the death of Journalism the American people will find the truth in Trump and he will be the next POTUS.

     

  13. truco publicitario?  Or is trump’s visit to Mexico a highly crafted prisoner exchange?  El Chapo makes his way to the US of AA and trump gets held in Mexico City.  No ransom like Iran, por favor.  Or worse, an attempted assassination to make trump look strong and elicit sympathy…and more hatred toward the Mexican citizens.  Or he can fracaso on the border…and let us hope the trumpjet is held in customs so he misses the speech.    I am sure he hopes that, too.

  14. Former DNC Debbie survives the revolution…in reality, supporters (this includes you, susan sarandon) are really just a beard  for Jane and Jeff.  The big money of the DNC was a heady experience for the two…the little people can eat cake while Jane and Jeff go after the big money.  sanders stays in the nationalist column, however, another who used putie’s data to hurt Clinton.  Everyone gets used this election season.

  15. Hillary at the American Legion is hitting all the bases– command and control, to veterans health care, to her record, to funding, to…

    Excellent job

  16. And now another example of dishonest anti-Hillary coverage:

    After days of “missing emails about Benghazi found … Hang the dishonest witch”, it turns out that they are copies of emails already released.

    Now we will get inundated references to Hillary’s high unfavorables with little context about just why she has them and how almost none of her actions contributed to them or why she just might not like talking to reporters.

     

  17. In line with out discussion of Generations the other day, Hillary will probably be the last of our Boomer Presidents (Obama born 1961 just barely squeaked into the 13th).  From 2020 on the Presidency will probably belong to the 13th & the Millennial generations.

    Idealist style groups such as the Boomers tend to be the most divisive (Extreme right left divisions).  To compensate we get great music 🙂 So Hillary is on a roll with some of the greatest of them with McCartney, Buffet, Bon Jovi playing for her.

     

  18. I was 98% sure the emails were literally “nothing new here”.  You’ve confirmed it Jamie, and the fact that other than a Gene Robinson column saying that she must learn from her mistakes, I don’t see anything about them on the WaPo site today.

    And you are oh, so right about the music we got to compensate for, and in many cases as a result of the strife that was visited upon the world by the previous generations.

  19. When I tease Sue about being a Boomer (28 Nov 61) she doesn’t quite know how to react; a natural reaction for someone on the cusp. When I tease her about the Prez and her sharing the same bday (almost), the reaction is unambiguous and swift. Eight years on the job has not been kind to him.

  20. Nothing new need be found regarding Hillary and the emails.  The fact remains,  She lied, she has hidden thousands and violated the trust and the law.  Why would you go to such great effort to sanitize your history?

    I do not think she is evil or a threat.  She is only a check mark in the box.  Not a reason.

  21. Ya know if the Republicans were to decide to hang Ping, he would praise the quality of the rope.

    Aiieee, buy them books and send them to school……………………….

    From the ending of Animal farm:

     

    But just at that moment, as though at a signal, all the sheep burst out into a tremendous bleating of-

    “Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better!”

    It went on for five minutes without stopping. And by the time the sheep had quieted down, the chance to utter any protest had passed, for the pigs had marched back into the farmhouse.

  22. nbc:chicago

    hough many national and state polls show Clinton with an edge, she has been stressing that the campaign must not take anything for granted. At a fundraiser on Monday she told supporters she was “running against someone who will say or do anything. And who knows what that might be.”

  23. BTW

    My comment about Ping was directed at his unqualified support of Trumps immigration policy, which the last time I heard sounded a lot like Obama’s current policy but the day is still young and the wind is blowing,  so Trump has time to spin and point in another direction

     

    Jack

  24. nbcchicgo: Cops: Woman Set Herself on Fire in Congressman’s Chicago Office
    A woman set herself on fire in a suicide attempt Tuesday afternoon at U.S. Rep. Danny K. Davis’ West Side office, authorities said.
    About 3 p.m., the 43-year-old woman entered the office at 2746 W. Madison St. She drank hand sanitizer, poured it on herself and set herself on fire in an attempt to kill herself, according to Chicago Police. She suffered burns and was taken to Stroger Hospital in serious condition.
    [….]
    “We get people a great deal who have these kinds of issues,” Davis said of people who stop his street-level office. “We do the best we can for them.”
    Davis said that at least once a day a person with a mental illness, who is homeless or is addicted to drugs, stops by his office. His staff frequently works with area homeless shelters, mental health organizations and hospitals to help people get into treatment.
     

  25. Compared to Trump, Hillary’s a mere fibber.  Re: the emails, upon questioning by the minority members even Comey acknowledged that there were none MARKED confidential.  What the “c” meant on the 3 that bore that designation is still unclear.  Hmm after 30 years of ‘pugn digging, I can’t imagine why she would try and minimize the amount of emails of hers that might be combed through.

    And now “We interrupt 2016 election coverage to inform you of the small possibility that there might be intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy”  One of these days…

  26. Ping, you speak to the essence of trust. For me I know this: I would rest much more comfortably entrusting my personal affairs to Hillary for the nest eight years than I would to Donald. I feel the same way about the affairs of state.

  27. Jack, for certain mine was an alien-like creature for her first 5 years – once she learned to act like a dog I decided to keep her, but for those 1st 5 years she was on the short list of things to be discarded on bulk pickup days.  If LP hadn’t liked her so much back then I probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. While we “adopted” her in the Wal Mart parking lot from a couple that reminded me of the rural couple in “Men in Black”, I expect her to disappear in a flash of  light at any time.

  28. Wow Ping

    Trump is a horrible person  Vote for Gary Johnson

    Trump has unleashed a torrent of hate.  I am shocked you think he would be a good idea

  29. Bore-is Ephsteyn is talking like the Condom he apparently has never heard Trump speak

  30. And PP just confirmed the automatic knee jerk right wing meme.  You can prove over and over that she didn’t lie simply by putting things in context with exact quotes and citing the retraction of charges by FBI and all you end up with is “careless”.  The never hacked (unlike government agencies) private server use was careless.  That’s it.  Total sum and resolution of all charges.

    I swear from media and all the others on instant charges repeat, they don’t even know they are doing it.

  31. Flatus

    Each of the “Generations” is divided into cohorts, so there is a leading edge still echoing the previous group, a middle solidly into the type, and a trailing edge that is turning the job of society over to the next.

    There are glitches and some too easy generalizations in the Strauss/Howe generational theory, but enough rings true to be recognizable to almost everyone.

    It isn’t comforting that the predictions made in the 1990s said the Crisis Era would be 2004 – 2025.  So they had no way of knowing that a 9/11 and a rise in terrorism specifically but they did know there would be a crisis during the Boomer old age and 13th in middle age.  We get to live through it now.

  32. Hugh Hewitt is a right wing not very sharp tool Regardless of how you want to spin it Trump has figured out that all of his ideas are full of shit and now he is trying to figure out how to get out of them

  33. stars and stripes:

    “Now, I know some of you are Democrats and some of you are Republicans and some of you are Independents,” she said. “I suppose there are some of you who have never voted for a Democrat before, I get that . … We can disagree without being disagreeable.”

  34. abc:

    “You don’t build a coalition by insulting our friends or acting like a loose cannon. You do it by putting in the slow, hard work of building relationships,” the Democratic presidential nominee and former secretary of state said during remarks at the American Legion’s national convention in Cincinnati, referring to her Republican opponent.

    “Getting countries working together was my job every day as your secretary of state. It’s more than a photo op. It takes consistency and reliability. Actually, it’s just like building personal relationships. People have got to know that they can count on you, that you won’t say one thing one day and something totally different the next.

    “And,” she added, “it certainly takes more than trying to make up for a year of insults and insinuations by dropping in on our neighbors for a few hours and then flying home again. That is not how it works.”

  35. wapo:

    The Supreme Court will not allow North Carolina in the coming election to use a strict voting law that a lower court found was enacted “with almost surgical precision” to blunt the influence of African American voters.

    The court said Wednesday it would not stay a ruling of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit that found the law unconstitutional. The court was not ruling on the merits of the law but instead on an emergency request filed by Gov. Pat McCrory (R) to use the law as the state had in previous elections.

    Four justices — Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Anthony Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. — would have granted most of North Carolina’s request, according to the court’s order.

  36. Good for North Carolina

    Now let’s do something about Ohio which is purghing it’s voter roles of Democrats

  37. Now, Gov Brewer is on msnbc. I didn’t realize that she is old enough to be president (Sept 26, 1944). Hate truly does terrible things to one’s appearance.

  38. Flatus

    It’s vicious of me, but I can’t help but think Ann Coulter, Kellyanne Conway, and Brewer’s faces are examples of what happens to once pretty blond mean girls when the little witches grow up.

    I will now go atone for my sins by pretending I didn’t mean that.

  39. Great day for our future President with his trip to Mexico.

    The noise from the left will only get louder as Trump continues to grow.  Watching the coverage there is no substance in response from the Hillary team.

     

  40. Ping, I’m glad that you are able to find joy and contentment in the day to day happenings within your Party.

  41. With all the talk of Trump to Mexico, I’ve spent some time jogging my memory.  Since my uncle was a raisin grape rancher, I was really familiar with the once a year braceros coming in for picking and drying of the grapes.  (My cousins and I would sneak out the window in the morning to go get fresh tortillas because we weren’t supposed to go near the “Mexicans”)

    Most of the farmers really screwed themselves over by not treating the Braceros in the 40s & 50s fairly for housing, education (children) and payroll.  Ended up in a strike and all of it fed into the Farm Workers Union.  Caesar Chavez was actually opposed to illegal immigration because the contracts with Mexican citizens and Hispanic Americans actually strengthened the union in its fight with the Teamsters in the 60’s.

    End result the flood of illegals needed to handle agriculture, under paid and under the table with children born here or imported as DACAs.  Anyway, all the greedy corporations caused their own problem and then sold the hatred to the right wing that doesn’t have a clue about the history.
     Salad Bowl Strike 
    Bracero Discontent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program#Reasons_for_discontent_amongst_braceros_in_the_U.S.

  42. John Lovett:  The Press expectations for Trump are now the same as those for a child’s dance recital. He just has to make it through without a tantrum.

     

  43. Mr. Trump said they discussed a border wall, but did not talk about which country would pay for it.

     

    Mr. Bombastic

  44. Ping, are you suggesting there was substance to respond to? Sounds like a fluff job to me.

    And the noise from the left can’t hold a candle to the cacaphony from the trumpf faithful and their leader.

  45. The VI did not appear to age like other presidents.  Obama has a lot more grey than he started with.

    So the carny with the orange rat on his head visited the southern US state of Mexico (not New Mexico, old Mexico).  Although it is late I do not know if he decided to take up with a drug cartel or return to the northern US states.  It would be a hoot if he goes through secondary inspection due to lots of drug dust on his shoes.

    There is little to say about the HRC, the FBI and State dustup over recovered emails.  For some reason the delete was not delete but the old MS trick of changing  a bit and calling it gone.  I do not see anything important coming from this, especially the constant leak of ‘these contain Benghazi” emails.  Whoever is doing that leak needs to be sent off to the Northwest Territories to do local observation of global warming.

  46. The press has cooperated with the Dumpster Drivel’s real reason for the “sudden” trip to Mexico.  He couldn’t have that story of using underaged illegal immigrants as slave models by his agency.  Looking like a total “low energy” doofus rocking back and forth from leg to leg while living up the minimal requirement of not have a temper tantrum in the cereal aisle was sufficient to eradicate abusive treatment of women.

  47. Hillary avoids the press & collects cash.  You folks have no problem with that?  You’d be screaming if it was anyone else.

    Trump is the one who looked presidential this week.

     

  48. Blue

    I guess all the African-American & Hispanic reporters at the NABJ were chopped liver?  And she’s raising money for the down ticket races to take over the Senate and increase majority in the House … shame on her for trying to wipe out Republican recalcitrance.

    But again, don’t let facts interfere with your prejudices.

  49. It’s not immigration Trump is taking about, it’s illegal entry.  Folks had to come in legally and be processed through Ellis Island.

  50. Trump is also talking about immigration limits –his whole Syrian argument.  The Muslim ban

    and wait until he finds out some other group he will have a problem.  Heavevn help Slovenians if he and Melanoma   get divorced

    So  Clinton took money to help people wth health care problems  in third world countries

    She is the worst person in the world…well number 2 to anyone who believes the gooper screed

     

    And good job Bernie — abandoning the one candidate he endorsed so he could collect big money and for what

    I’d watch the charges you fling around  it’s beginning to sound like “I know I am but so are you”

  51. The president of Mexico has an approval rating of 22% and now it will be worse

    Trump’s immigration speech is going to pivot-the wall is to stop illegal drugs not people and he will say most of the people are good people and can stay and pay taxes just not be citizens — with someone like Trump as president who would want to stay

  52. The Trump meme of the week is Isn’t he presidential?  Sad when that’s the argument –once again for goopers the appearance of something is enough

    I guess when he went to La after the flood and the charity he picked is anti-gay — that’s real leadership and he didn’t ask what people needed he brought what he could get for free — yeah he’s a real cheap leader and a bigot. But he looked presidential

    The only media Trump appears on is Fox – and GQ

  53. This is a lie for those who apparently do not know what one is

    Trump said they did not discuss who would pay for the wall.

    Pena tweeted – the first thing I said to him was that Mexico would not be paying for the wall

    Therefore Trump’s statement is a BIG FAT LIE

  54. Trump is the biggest panda bear ever  gotta get those white wimmens with the blood  coming out of their where evers

    ladies next thing he will be prochoice

  55. Plus Trump wants to end birthright citizenship for babies whose parents are undocumented.  Over 240 years of tradition thrown out the window along with the infants and their parents because he actually believes the myth of “anchor babies’.

     

  56.  

    Trump is actually proposing the same policy that built our country. –ping pong @ 12:48pm

    pongocchio has sprouted one of the longest noses in American history.

    Pray, Mr pong, precisely what is this “policy” that allegedly “built” our country ?

  57. Trump said they did not discuss who would pay for the wall.

    Pena tweeted – the first thing I said to him was that Mexico would not be paying for the wall

    kgc, no doubt drumpf will wiggle out of this one by either saying something like “he’s a liar” or “if he did he said it in Spanish and the translator was a loser and didn’t tell it to me”

    methinks the trip was put together to 1. divert any coverage of and/or downplay Hillary’s American legion speech  2. to fluff & soften up media for his immigration speech tonight  3. photo op of big tall white guy standing next to small short brown guy 4. try to show him on international stage as statesman 5. suck all the air out of serious news stories.

  58. that will just make him more of a liar

    this is not going to go well for Trump

     

  59. “Pray, Mr pong, precisely what is this “policy” that allegedly “built” our country ?”

    xr, maybe ping alludes to our founding immigrant fathers who invaded, murdered and almost annihilated the natives.  you know the same way we took texas away from mexico.

  60. The mythic romanticism of “Ellis Island” is amusing, as if Europeans fleeing war and economic collapse took some kind of character test on the way in.

  61. Customs official: “Name, please?”

     

    European Immigrant: “Kra-kow-ski.”

     

    Customs official: “Zrygrgyzewski, got it.  Next!”

  62. Even if everything people said about Clinton was true it would just like electing a Republican

  63. Of course there were all those pesky racial quotas until the 1940s that applied to all ports of entry (Ellis Island wasn’t the only one).  Oh and following the Civil War and Manifest Destiny pushing from the Atlantic to the Pacific & Canada to Mexico, the US took in just about anyone with a white skin even Eastern Europeans (Emma Lazarus invited)… Jews still had a problem and we were birthing out own black formerly slave population so Africa  including Arabs could forget it as did the “obnoxious” Chinese.

    Have I destroyed all the romance of Ellis yet?

    Immigration Act of 1924

     

  64. Ok Willie Horton just showed up

    this is not a policy speech – this is rally speech suckers.

  65. I can’t wait for the fact check tomorrow morning.  Kessler will be as busy as a one armed paper hanger tonight.  He could probably write a book on trumpf’s lies about his visit with Mexico’s president today.

    God, what a load of BULLSHIT. I can’t stand it.  Is there a football game on?

  66. OMG – The lies on CNN are so amazing.  Lemon is a Lemon and the over stacked group are such simple minds.  WOW – Trump did have a strong presence is correct.  He talked about the illegal CRIMINALS as a preference on EVERY STEP.  NOW THE LIES ON CNN ARE AMAZING.  He did not reference the other illegals that are here.

    Shame on Trump at this point for not being specific on these elements.  As the small minded MSM are amazing as he did not address the 11 Million and they are projecting.  Oh my what a sad state of weakness in the MSN and what a rotten Lemon.

  67. Bakari Sellers is deliberate in changing the facts or on the Clinton Payroll – oh the same.  He is so twisting the facts of the Trump address.

    And YES your Irish Immigrants did have to pass a test.  Mr Lemon you are a joke.

    Florida will vote for TRUMP

  68. Ping, he conflated undocumented immigrants and undocumented immigrants with criminal backgrounds early in the speech.  Sorry, but while he focused on “criminal aliens” he included undocumented aliens with them as deportation targets early in the speech then back tracked on  that. He lied about the historic level of illegal immigration – in a sense he’s right, it’s at the lowest level in 20 years. That’s not the historic level he’s referring to.

  69. Smerconsih is the only honest voice on CNN.  Trump did leave the one question and I trust Trump will next clear the air on the 11 million not criminal that they will have a chance to be legal but not a citizen.  Listen to the speech and he is setting the stage.

    Brilliant for Trump on the criminal illegal aliens.  Beyond the mental ability of Don Lemon and CNN to grasp.

  70. Bakari Sellers – can you balance your check book?

    I do not trust you or those with you to balance our countries.

  71. As Hugh Hewitt said … He doesn’t know who wrote the speech but they get a gold star.  And we have confirmed Donald can read.  Not well, but he can read, and repeat himself, and lead crowd cheers.  Thinking not so much.

     

  72. As an importer and employer of illegal immigrants, shouldn’t trump be considered an expert on the topic, and then charged, tried, convicted, deprived of citizenship and deported to Nicaragua?

    What business do repubs have running someone who imports illegal aliens to take American jobs ?

  73. All I know is that this vicious, hateful, petty, egotistical, hideous man should not be allowed anywhere near the White House.  Anyone voting for him really should be ashamed of themselves for willfully injuring their fellow citizens.

  74. Thank you Donald Trump for bringing the issues to light!  It is beautiful that we are having a national dialogue only thanks to Donald Trump.

    And come on did anyone listen to the talk?  Every element was about the illegal CRIMINAL elements.  He did NOT address the 11 Million and did not make a negative case against the 11 Million or so that are contributing.  It is amazing to listen to the spin and change of what he did talk about.

    Shame on Trump for not being clear – or Brilliant?  I am confident that he is not for deportation of those good people that are here.  He will continue to control the media and the stage.  When he continues to clear the air as he has been doing this will continue to bring more to support Trump.

    Why do so many not listen and twist the words?

     

  75. Good night as I cannot continue to listen to the lies and those that twist what Donald Trump talked about.  Again Shame on Donald to allow those small minded or are they just ignorant that did not listen or are adding words that are just not true.

    If you are a tax payer you should care about your future.  What is the value of a life of an American killed by someone that should have not been here.

    LISTEN TO THE TALK – It was about ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ELEMENTS ONLY.  IT IS REAL.  Can we agree that these illegals should be gone?  Do you agree that those that lost lives do to the failure of the current system have a voice?

    We must also agree that next Donald Trump must answer the question of the majority that he did not address tonight must be resolved.  He has clearly indicated a change and compassion so do not change tonight – ask the question!

    So please stop putting words that did not get stated.

  76. Wow Ping

    So what you are telling me is that Trump has done a complete about face and now endorses current Obama policy. Which is concentrate on deporting  the convicted criminals and working toward a legal status for the rest.

    A truly remarkable collapse of one of his basic talking points.

    So tell me why does he now need the wall?

    Jack

  77. “Thank you Donald Trump for bringing the issues to light!”

     

    Ping,

     

    The issue of illegal immigration had come to light long before Trump.

    Sorry that you and others are just now tuning in. Go figure.

  78. If Great Walls are so great, why are so many of them archeological ruins? The Dumb Don could stand to read some history.

    Countries that walled themselves off often rotted from within. Really doesn’t make any difference who pays for it the results are usually the same. Can you say failure?

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