Things are getting a bit ugly between Bernie and Hillary. And we should not let that spill over here, endangering the civil discourse we have always prided ourselves on. I will be the first to admit letting my issues with Hillary spark the flame lately. I hereby vow to keep that in check, although I might fall off the wagon here and there. When you examine delegate allocation in the party voting going forward it is clear that this rivalry is going to last a few more months. So I am going to do my level best to keep our little corner of the Internets from turning into the ugly mess that we experienced in 2008.
I must have a short memory. I don’t remember it being ugly here. I remember difference of opinions, but that’s all.
I say, speak your mind about your candidate and the issues.
Any chance that what Cruz did to Ben Carson will cause some blowback? untrusTED
Craig
Your simply amazing.. Let your issues with Hillary spill over.. We will keep it civil this time around.. Even in 08 you were a champion at trying to keep it civil.. You do set the agenda here but you like all humans have an opinion and it’s ok.. I’m a strong Hillary supporter but i look at the rest of the net with the strong anti Hillary narrative and TM will never be like that.. All good..
Oh Blue,
Lol, your good.. You have blocked out Brian and Dog.. This place back then was a war.. Ha, now i miss Patsi and wish she was here to set the record straight… I agree, speak your mind about what’s important to you..
Lol, i cringe at “feel the Bern”.. It’s so masochistic and reminds me of every anti gay bully as a kid.. Go for it if you feel the Bern, you’re a great lady and i love your comments.. I’m so good with everything..
“The Ted Cruz Prayer” on Funny or Die is worth the read. Almost as funny as Jeb! asking for people to clap.
Oh yes Blue, I posted on the other thread, Bush, man a low energy loser.. Thanks Trump even though i despise your racist sexist ass…
Tony, I had forgotten those names. Selective memory, I guess. I miss Patsi, though.
I get something completely different from “Feel The Bern.”
Feel as in, feeling where someone is coming from/understanding. And he’s The Bern like Bill Clinton is The Big Dawg.
I’m sorry you had to deal with jerks. Hey, I got bullied in the bus from 4th to 6th grade because I wore glasses and looked like a good target. Mr. Berkypile, the bus driver, did nothing to stop it. There’s a name I won’t forget.
Craig…I appreciate your post…
Hi OD
So good to see you!! My email is Dfanbs@gmail.com.. I don’t want to lose contact with you.. Mail me as i would love your direct email.. Thanks T
Blue,
You get it.. That’s just a personal thing.. If “i feel the Bern” is good for Bernie supporters, ok.. I hate macho shit.. Only because i never measured up as a kid.. Now i accept others feelings.. Bernie is not a homohater and i don’t believe most of his supporters are..
Tony
You had to go and remind me of “He Who Shall Not Be Named” and the fact that even fearless leader had to block him resulting in the creation of a whole new competitive blog. ? Strangely enough he has become quite mellow on Facebook or at least courteous. I’ll have to ask who he is backing this time around.
There is one lady on Twitter who is delightful despite being totally in Bernie’s camp. We fight the GOP trolls together and there are a lot of them.
Lol, yes, Jamie, Brian.. I have the backchannel blog in my favs but i haven’t went there in years.. Brian did send a friend request but i’m never on Facebook other than messenger.. I so remember defending him because he was gay but in the end not enough to excuse.. :0)
Bernie missed on a great opportunity talking about his time on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee.
GORDO, also.
Let us all stay calm when dealing with the trolls and camouflaged provocateurs. Let us tell the candidates we want them to stop shouting, and to reign in all the negativity of their campaigns! If the next president is going to succeed, (S)he will need every vote to craft coat tails a mile and a half long.
This is pretty involved but worth reading. How Bernie Sanders supported sending Vermont nuclear waste to poor Hispanics in New Mexico. Guess who Hispanics are supporting?
Sierra Blanca: http://social-ecology.org/wp/1998/10/the-texas-vermont-maine-nuclear-dump-bringing-environmental-racism-home/ … Tax Credit: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00276 … Imm. visa cap vote: https://www.opencongress.org/bill/s153-114/actions_votes …
I favor a huge reform of election and banking/corporation law. That points me to Sanders, for whom I have a high regard.
I want a tough, proven, public administrator. That points me to Clinton, for whom I have deep respect.
Management, reform, and electability define the Democratic contest.
******************************************************************
Who can best destroy Gay rights, Black rights, Hispanic rights, Women’s rights, Muslims, and the ‘communist’ Federal Government, defines the contest in the republican contest.
I am going to caucus for Sanders even though I figure that the nomination of Clinton is inevitable.
After her nomination, I shall contribute to Clinton, work for her, vote for her, and cheer for her on election night.
That explains how New Mexico raises such hot chilis.
Sanders in CNN Town Hall tonight;
“I do not know any progressive who has a super PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street. That’s just not progressive. As I mentioned earlier, the key foreign policy vote of modern American history was the war in Iraq. The progressive community was pretty united in saying, ‘Don’t listen to Bush. Don’t go to war.’ Secretary Clinton voted to go to war.”
Clinton response in her session following Sanders, quipping that she was “amused” that the Vermont senator appears to consider himself the “gatekeeper on who’s progressive. So I’m not going to let that bother me. I know where I stand.”
Bob Elliot half of Bob & Ray passes at 92. I really am not enjoying this year
Clinton, asked if she should have taken $675,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs, said, “I don’t know. That’s what they offered.”
Some unsolicited advice for H Clinton on tomorow’s debate
ignore the bern and concentrate on your biography don’t let bernie get to you
let your freak flag fly
Good advice KGC
I’m looking forward to the MSNBC debate tomorrow. The CNN town hall tonight was great. Bernie was excellent talking points and Hillary was just plain amazing (sorry Bernie supporters but she was).
Wow, amazing Bernie and Hillary.. Excellent candidates.. Hillary especially.. A real progressive.. Paid speeches, lol, its the way things are done.. I live in the real world where money is king.. Sorry but let’s get real.. Bernie on Super pacs, lol, if he’s the nominee and doesn’t take the cash like Obama then he will be a loser..
Ms Cracker : “concentrate on your biography don’t let bernie get to you
let your freak flag fly”
Absolutely.
HRC : “It’s what they offered.”
I could give speech for that kind of dough. In fact, I’d love to !
Jamie,
Thanks for posting the article about Bob Elliott. He was cool. Big fan of both Mr. Elliotts (Bob & Chris).
A big plus for this site is that the vulgarity is kept to a minimum. Some of the stuff in social media written by supporters is not only vulgar, it is vile. No need for that crap. If you can’t explain why I should vote for Candidate X without pottymouthing guess what: your Candidate doesn’t come off well & isn’t worthy of my Vote. This cuts both sides.
If you didn’t catch the American Experience episode about James Garfield, please do. It is excellent & the parallels between modern day “owned” politics/integrity & those of 1880 are relevant. One of the best parts is when after assuming office, “Chet” Arthur became “President” Arthur. (It’s not what you may think it means.) It is, actually, a great moment in history.
“camouflaged provocateurs”
xr, thanks for the new term. real class.
bernie’s “I do not know any progressive who has a super PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street. That’s just not progressive.” reminds me of the many arguments I’ve heard amongst so-called christians who disparage their brethren of other churches (not to mention other faiths believing in the similar force they call god)… purity, in whose eyes? perfection is for angels not people and politicians. too many good lives have been wasted, good deeds ignored and compassionate compromise co-opted by holding out for the impossible perfect.
and who said that famous quote about “i can drink their drinks, eat their food and not be bought”?
oh yeah, jesse unruh: “If you can’t eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women, take their money and then vote against them you’ve got no business being up here.”
Well… along with names already mentioned, I recall someone who went by the moniker of “Mr. Democrat” in 08…. he delighted in getting Hillary supporters riled up.
And if you want to see nasty, you should see the Republican ads showing around here on tv. I’ve been watching elections for years and I’ve never seen anything this bad. What the hell ever happened to Ronald Reagan’s “thou shalt not say anything bad about a fellow Republican”. It’s become negative campaigning on steroids on their side.
Not sure how Anderson Cooper could grill Hillary on national television regarding her speaking fees when he himself charges $100,000 plus. She’s been FLOTUS, US Senator, SOS and 1st Woman Presidential Candidate. And who is he? Now thats chutzpah! And sexist. Anderson Cooper American Speakers
Kathleen,
Good point.. Anderson we hardly knew yah! I mean really that’s what it’s come down to, Bernie anyone accepting speaking fees isn’t a true progressive, please and i’m supposed to listen to that from someone who hasn’t even been a Democrat but for 5 min.. I don’t think so.. Ridiculous..
Pretty good article on Clinton email controversy. Ignore the excitable headline. Emails contain references to CIA
Having lived through the ugliness of 2008 here, I think what we’re doing now is tame by comparison. Blue and Solar don’t like Hillary. No one’s crucifying them by any means. Civil disagreements are what politics ought to be about isn’t it? I’ll stick to issues, even if they are very broad political philosophical ones and try not to be too critical of Bernie. On a philosophical level I agree with much of what he says, but I do not believe he has the skills to bring many if any ‘pugns into his way of thinking on very many issues and think he may be too principled to bend enough to accomplish anything that would get through two houses of Congress, particularly the ‘pugn dominated lower house. I think the thing that we all need to keep in mind is that criticism of a candidate is not a criticism of someone supporting that candidate. He whose name must not be spoken (not Cheney, not Valdemort) could not make that distinction. Let’s not repeat history.
Here, IMHO as a lawyer are the money lines from the article Jamie posted. “A handful of emails forwarded to Hillary Clinton’s personal server while she was secretary of state contained references to undercover CIA officers … there was no email on Clinton’s server that directly revealed the identity of an undercover intelligence operative … references that were deemed classified when the messages were being reviewed years later for public release.” Hard to find intent in that.
Like it or not campaigns require money to run. We know the biggest donations come from those who expect agreement on their issues or at a minimum access to pitch their demands.
What is needed is absolute open policy (what are the identities of donors to the Super Pacs for instance) so that a trail can be followed from money to politician to votes.
Jamie, ref your http://trailmix.cc/home/2016/02/03/settling-down-for-a-long-haul/#comment-2737
yes, that NBC article is good. And taking advantage of diplomatic missions is the normal and expected practice used by intelligence services of _all_ countries. It is extremely poor manners to abuse the privilege by ‘top secret’. Invariably many countries try and that is where it becomes interesting.
Hang on to your hats. NASA is taking you for a ride
Except for periods of training and months here and there I spent virtually all of the 1960s and the first part of the 1970s in the Far East. I was in Korea, Vietnam, Guam and the Philippines. In each of those place I had the privilege of serving with, and leading, men drafted into our Army and volunteering for service in our Air Force as a draft alternative. I never heard them complain because they realized that they were answering the call just as their fathers and older brothers had before them. I, an enlistee, was proud to serve with them.
The below content, from last year, gets to the heart of Bernie’s Bern:
That’s one fancy drone. Can’t tell its scale from the video, but that electric prototype (it’s a half size mock up of what will be a 20′ wingspan diesel powered craft) has a 10′ wingspan. Not exactly your standard Sharper Image purchase.
Pogo, are they doing this testing on contract from Amazon for their delivery service?
Flatus, I’m not a Sanders supporter but I don’t fault anyone back in the Vietnam days for taking advantage of the deferments provided by Congress in the draft scheme. I had a 1-S deferment when I was in high school and a 2-S when I was in college. When I graduated from college in ’74 no one was still being drafted. Of my high school class (1970) I believe only about 3 kids were drafted although there were many more kids than that who were eligible. I assume most of them had higher draft numbers (I think mine was 217) and never got called up. My Uncle (USAF Lt. Col.) was in military intelligence in the early days of the war (prior to ’65), stationed in Saigon. He told me to go to college, that I did not want to let myself be drafted into what he described as a mess over there.
Flatus, ask Jamie. She posted the video. 😉
I don’t believe in being civil anymore.
As a rural American, I have watched Clinton policies destroy our local economies and families. The last time I saw the numbers, America had gained about 34% more kids, but there were 37% less in rural America. What kind of Democratic value is it to sit back and watch parents have to say good-bye to their kids who want to stay at home but can’t because there are no opportunities. Where I live we have lost most all of our manufacturing to Clinton policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA, ETC.) and now, there is the war on coal. To be clear, I strongly believe climate change is something that has to be dealt with AND NOW. But..at the same time, I believe my once great party of working people should care as much about the kids living at the bottom of the mountain as they do the trees at the top or Wall Street donations.
The “Pied Piper of Greed” who has stolen our kids is without question a Clinton ally.
BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!
Pogo, I know you to be an honorable man. Other things being equal, I can’t see you evading service if your number came up before your next door neighbor’s in an honest, well run lottery.
Your uncle was correct. The Administration equated Vietnam with Korea–they were nowhere close. The peoples are totally different; the political situation was totally different. It was a situation created by the French and their greed and ineptitude. Jim Webb is undoubtedly more in tune with Vietnam than am I; I concentrate on Korea. I hope that he will correct me where my appreciation is wrong.
Mudcat, twenty-five years ago I was at a Florida League of Cities convention held in Miami. I had the privilege of meeting and talking with the city manager and city attorney of a dying rural city in North Florida. The heart of their story was exactly as yours is today. Except it wasn’t Clinton being blamed, it was Reagan and Bush.
Their children couldn’t wait to get out of town. They saw zero opportunity. Their parents were heartsick. Despite consuming a prodigious amount of booze, we could not brainstorm a realistic solution for their city.
I agree with those that say we should develop and exploit our expertise in alternative energy. We absolutely must redevelop our roads and bridges—the whole litany of things that have been mentioned during the campaigns.
The great market for our and Australian coal has been China; but, their cities have become dangerous because lack of effective environmental controls. They are looking for alternatives.
And tell me what’s the $15 minimum wage going to do to the enticement of the“Pied Piper of Greed”? Certainly, struggling rural establishments won’t be able to meet that minimum, sheesh, when they close, the cost of shuttering their shops will be unaffordable.
I don’t see where Bernie and his pie-in-the-sky promises offer anything during his term if elected.
You think anybody willingly stays in Canton Ohio?
I think the policies that have destroyed people’s ability to make a living in rural America has more to do with gooper policies. like the inability to get health care
Older Americans men and women (over 45????????? ) support Clinton but no one is worried they might not vote
and of course I would like to remind you all the storied youth vote was bullshit in the 2008 election
according to the census In 2008,younger citizens (18-24) had the lowest voting rate
so stuff it everyone who has been ooooinng and ahing over the youth vote
they voted for Obama 2-1 just not that many voted
War on Coal indeed. I live in the middle of WV coal country and used to work for a few of the largest coal companies. The “War on Coal” was created by marketing firms bought and paid for by the likes of Peabody and Consolidated Coal Co. to combat the EPA “Clean Power Plan.” Sounds like coal as the dirtiest source of fossil fuel energy would be the target, and the “Plan” would hit it hardest, right? Think again. The war on coal is not between the government and the coal industry – it is between the coal industry and the shale/natural gas industry. Coal’s decline has paralleled the drop in energy prices that is in large part driven by the huge swell of natural gas into the energy system as a result of the fracking boom nationwide. In WV that started about 8 or 9 years ago and in the late 90s elsewhere and peaked about one year ago here as the NG supplies became a surplus, driving the cost of energy down to the point that coal companies are largely priced out of profitability. I’m told that here the power plants have shifted to NG from coal because NG is cheaper per BTU and is now easily available. The limit on even further saturation of the energy market with NG is set by delivery limitations – there simply isn’t enough pipeline capacity to get the gas from the wells to the end users, which in turn is creating a boom n pipeline construction. Not everyone sees a long term future fo rnatural gas, as is reflected in the article linked below. But please, don’t complain about energy regulations that favor one form of energy in an emerging sector over energy in a waning one and call it a war on coal.
http://www.nature.com/news/natural-gas-the-fracking-fallacy-1.16430
Well Pogo you are talking about clean coal right?
Here’s another link to an article discussing NG supply.
“Natural gas production in the lower-48 states has increased from less than 50 billion cubic feet a day in 2005 to about 70 Bcf/d today. This is an increase of 40 percent over nine years, or a compound annual growth rate of about 4 percent. There is no indication that this rate of increase is slowing. In fact, with continuing improvements in drilling efficiency and effectiveness, natural gas production is forecast to reach almost 90 Bcf/d by 2020, representing another 29 percent increase over 2014 output.
Most of this production growth is concentrated in a few extremely prolific producing regions. Four of these are in a fairway that runs from the Texas Gulf Coast to North Dakota through the middle section of the country, and encompasses the Eagle Ford, the Permian Basin, the Granite Wash, the South Central Oklahoma Oil Play and other basins in Oklahoma, and the Williston Basin. The other major producing region is the Marcellus and Utica shales in the Northeast. Almost all the natural gas supply growth is coming from these regions.
Production in the Northeast is particularly abundant, with volumes increasing from 2 Bcf/d in 2008 to more than 18 Bcf/d in 2014. That astronomical growth rate is expected to continue, reaching 30 Bcf/d by 2020.
This much gas far exceeds the infrastructure available to move those supplies to market, and in fact, exceeds the ability for markets in the Northeast to use all the gas. Even though the Northeast market is one of the largest in the country, regional production is on track to exceed regional demand on a net basis next year. After that, a burgeoning supply surplus can be expected to develop.”
http://www.aogr.com/magazine/cover-story/u.s.-natural-gas-supply-expanding-to-surplus-levels-demand-growth-will-foll
Flatus, of the 4 males in my dad’s generation , Dad was Navy, two uncles were Army and the third was USAF. I like to think that had my number come up I would have reported for my physical. Not certain whether my right shoulder would have disqualified me or not, but I thankfully never had to find out.
Katherine, Bernie is filling their heads full of BS. Every mature person, I’ll go with your 45-yo age point, should openly challenge how his funding plans will affect mature people’s ability to retire on schedule, or if retired, to obtain supplementary home healthcare when that inevitable need arises.
He should be telling the youngsters that they are obliged to take care of their family members as required. That’s part of being a member of humankind. It may be inconvenient, it might involve some out-of-pocket expense, the beneficiary may not adequately express appreciation. But that’s the way it is; suck it up.
Bernie should be challenged to explain, in detail, how he helped society when he was young. And how that experience prepares him to be a better president than Hillary.
NEW THREAD
Pogo…I agree with your natural gas point and the FACT that natural gas is the order of the day in this country.
However, as you are right again, China is still buying high BTU metallurgical coal. Not as much with the downturn in their economy. but still buying.
My point is China is still burning it. If they’re going to burn it, why not burn ours? The problem is that new permitting of a coal mine is all but impossible. And being from West Virginia, I think you will agree with that FACT.
Of course, the dying coal market and loss of manufacturing in the southern Appalachians doesn’t seem to matter much to anybody but the people who live here. I guess that makes sense for many Democrats…not enough votes live here.
Katherine Graham Cracker, I don’t know any kids from Canton, Ohio, so I can’t answer your question. However, I know a ton of kids in SW Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley who don’t want to leave here.